Knowing Your Own Strength - Tank Smasher

[naloth]

Originally Posted by CeeDub

Are we sure the problem is the ST and not the tank's armour? I think it's extremely difficult to compare and/or balance damage against DR. Maybe the DR is just too high?

I would tackle reducing DR (logarithmic diminishing returns) and then reducing firearm damage to fall in line with everything else. I posted a quick idea above, though I haven't playtested it.

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by CeeDub

Also, depending on how exactly you define "acceptable" breaks from reality, maybe punching a tank is the wrong approach in the first place. Force equals mass times acceleration. No matter how strong you are, you can only punch so fast without super-speed, and without gravity or density manipulation, you can only put so much weight behind a punch.

What I'd consider is using Lifting ST to rip the tank's turret off, then go to town on it's soft and juicy insides. Or pick it up and throw it, let it's own HP kill it with collision damage. The math is probably all wrong, but with the T-72A's weight of ~42 metric tonnes and your BL of 2E+72, you should be able to throw it about 2,520 yards. Even if the tank survives, the crew will not.

I mentioned this briefly earlier; was hoping someone with access to the article in question could do the math. I mean with the kind of BL being described in Bruno's initial posts, I just went to plug in the numbers quick and my spreadsheet rounded the ratio off to zero because it was so low. Someone with more time and access to the article want to see what kind of ST score it takes for various feats of strength like

1) Ripping off the turret or other important bits
2) Just throwing the thing far enough that the occupants are, if not dead or too shaken up to bother you, far enough away that you don't have to worry about them for a while.
3) Going extreme and just tossing them into orbit, or if possible beyond.

Maybe I can't punch someone to the moon, but perhaps I can run a Super which can toss them there. ;)

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Otaku

1) Ripping off the turret or other important bits.

Or just turning it upside down. Tanks cannot right themselves.

[JazzJedi]

Couldn't a super punch operate a bit like a high-explosive squash-head attack? A fast enough super punch would transfer a lot of its energy through the armor, cause knockback, etc.

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Or just turning it upside down. Tanks cannot right themselves.

Ah yes, my bad; originally I was going to discuss other vehicles as well, including things like mecha, where just turning it upside wouldn't be enough. I remembered to remove some of the extraneous bits, but didn't tweak that sentence.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Otaku

I mentioned this briefly earlier; was hoping someone with access to the article in question could do the math. I mean with the kind of BL being described in Bruno's initial posts, I just went to plug in the numbers quick and my spreadsheet rounded the ratio off to zero because it was so low. Someone with more time and access to the article want to see what kind of ST score it takes for various feats of strength like

1) Ripping off the turret or other important bits
2) Just throwing the thing far enough that the occupants are, if not dead or too shaken up to bother you, far enough away that you don't have to worry about them for a while.
3) Going extreme and just tossing them into orbit, or if possible beyond.

Maybe I can't punch someone to the moon, but perhaps I can run a Super which can toss them there. ;)

I don't have the article unfortunately. The Supers rules had "human bullet" and rules for ripping off bits, but it was based on ST vs DR. Given that the overall ST value is much lower those won't work unless you also reduce DR proportionally.

I've been pondering what this system would like like in Supers terms.

ST 20 is about a max lift (BLx10) of 1 ton - say the movie Captain America
ST 30 would be about 10 tons - Spider-Man range
ST 40 would be about 100 tons - perhaps a touch high for the Thing or Colossus (subtract a few points). Perhaps a "calm" Hulk?
ST 50 1k tons - angry hulk (typical fighting mode)?
ST 60 10k tons
ST 70 100k tons
ST 80 1 million tons
ST 90 10 million tons
ST 100 100 million tons - perhaps Superman?

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by naloth

I don't have the article unfortunately. The Supers rules had "human bullet" and rules for ripping off bits, but it was based on ST vs DR. Given that the overall ST value is much lower those won't work unless you also reduce DR proportionally.

I've been pondering what this system would like like in Supers terms.

ST 20 is about a max lift (BLx10) of 1 ton - say the movie Captain America
ST 30 would be about 10 tons - Spider-Man range
ST 40 would be about 100 tons - perhaps a touch high for the Thing or Colossus (subtract a few points). Perhaps a "calm" Hulk?
ST 50 1k tons - angry hulk (typical fighting mode)?
ST 60 10k tons
ST 70 100k tons
ST 80 1 million tons
ST 90 10 million tons
ST 100 100 million tons - perhaps Superman?

S'way dated information, but for a while I believe that Thor (without his ST enhancing magical belt - does he even have that anymore?) could life 100 tons. Just... if you wanted an example from Marvel.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Otaku

Just... if you wanted an example from Marvel.

Not the best example -- the Official Handbook stats weren't even accurate at the time they were written, since artists and writers completely ignored them.

[Toptomcat]

Originally Posted by Hellboy

If characters are inherently able to control their force for free, is there maybe a limitation that could be applied to powers/strength where you have to roll some kind of check to be able to reduce damage? Like if you're Superman and you don't want to punch off someone's head but maybe you're angry and have trouble holding back... if enraged or disoriented there should be penalties on such a roll.

Worrying about that kind of thing to begin with seems like it would be out of genre in almost any story with Superman in it. Maybe in a more grounded version of the supers genre like Worm or Heroes, but not 90% of superhero stories.

[Flyndaran]

It's not really realistic though. We don't have to take extraordinary effort to avoid crushing kittens or even marshmallows. That's hamfisted or klutz.