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Old 01-22-2013, 05:20 PM   #1
Yafnag
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Default question about public nudity, npg reaction and some other related stuff

Hi,

Premise:
I'm a GM and I'm running an swashbuckler campaign with a international intrigue.
The player are:
- A defaced swordsman that have lost his memories
- A wealthy noblewoman that want to find an obscure magic artifact
- A philanderer bard really unlucky


One of their enemy is a femme fatale: a Very Beautiful [reaction +6], cunning [IQ 13] thief [DX 15] deadly skilled with throw kniwes, that have caused many troubles anche that know where is the artifact.

What happen:
During a sea journey (ship and crew rent by the noblewoman) the players have captured the undercover thief, strip search and throw away in the sea all her equipment (knives, lockpicks tool, cloth and underwear too). They want keep her as prisoner (maybe ensalve her) and in order to avoid her escape, they have establish to keep her always undress and chained.

So this is the situation:

Femme fatale:
ST 8 DX 15 IQ 13

Advantages: Appearance (Very Beautiful [reaction +6]);Strong Will +2; Voice; Daredevil

Disadvantage: Social Stigma (criminal), greed

quirks: selfish

skill: Throwing, Acrobatics, Fast-Talk, Pickpocket, Sex Appeal, Stealth, Lockpicking, Intimidation

equipment:
- shackled ankles (walk but not run)
- manacles that keep hands behind the back
- a thong and a bra made with tangled rag strips [holdout -6]



Questions:
* about shackles and manacles:
- what stats have this type of tools?
- what malus they give to: DX, Stealth and social apparence?

* intimidation:
- what malus give to her intimidation considering that her is chained and nearly naked?
- what bonus give to player if they try to intimidating her?

* social stigma:
- slave stigma require some sort of bureaucracy work or is automatic because the thief is caputred and chained?
- the thief have aready a criminal stigma, the slave stigma must be sum to it?

* how manage npg reaction about her public nudity
- when she is drag through crowded streets, when enter in a inn, etcetera... the npg will have most likely compassion or taunt or what?
- how png deal with players that keep a prisoner in this way?

* how public humiliation can work against her will, charisma and status?

* what other bonus/malus can play a role in that situation?

* Some idea about circumstance that may be rise from this situation?

* how manage the beavior of this uncooperative npg thief





Because the journey toward the artifact will take some week and involve environment as cities, ships and forest, I need a precise way to handle prisoner related stuff.


thank in advance.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:36 PM   #2
starslayer
 
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Default Re: question about public nudity, npg reaction and some other related stuff

This depends on other factors specific to your setting.

How does the world view slavery? Extended imprisonment?

Would stripping a person naked and keeping them in chains be something done to normal prisoners, or is this well over the spectrum of 'cruel and unusual punishment'

I think we also need to know what social skills she has and at what levels. Fast talk, sex appeal, acting, etc.

Quite frankly with such over the top appearance, coupled with voice, she just needs to find someone (like a guard) who will accept that +6 modifier for her grand total +8 and then with even mediocre skill she will be able to get a stellar reaction/influence roll and have the individual become her champion to free her from her predicament.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:07 PM   #3
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Default Re: question about public nudity, npg reaction and some other related stuff

I agree with starslayer.

She should be using her appearance and voice and start playing on people's sympathies. Just some crying and pleading at the wrong moments should cause the players all kinds of trouble.

She should also start trying to appeal to their conscious. Apologizing and trying to win her freedom. Perhaps seducing one of the PCs. She is smart, so playing a slow con would prove better than a quick obvious one.

I think if they threaten harm to her chained up and naked, that would be worth a significant intimidation bonus. +3 or +4 also depending on how well the PC makes the roll. She would probably choose to just be "intimidated" and act the part of the submissive prisoner. It would help her con her way out of trouble. Lull the PCs into being comfortable.

You could give her a social stigma of slave temporarily, again depending on how your setting treats slavery. I think it could have the opposite affect on someone that abhors slavery or from a culture that's opposed to it (essentially giving her a further social bonus in convincing someone to help her).

I could see several possibilities play out depending on the culture of your setting;

1) If slavery is the purview of the aristocracy or elite, and they have the common social mores of such societies, then parading around a naked slave is probably going to be considered especially cruel at best and decidedly lascivious at worse. It could cause disdain from fellow "sympathizers" who would otherwise not find the PCs ownership of a slave to be unusual. It could also attract unwanted attention from unsavory types who think they've found kindred spirits...

2) If mistreating slaves is common place, people may just ignore the situation or perhaps to avoid attention from "those who own and mistreat slaves". Minding one's own business tends to be a common attitude in stratified cultures where making too much trouble causes a person severe consequences and loss of freedom.

3) If slavery is looked upon as distasteful, then the rogue will have ample opportunities to find sympathetic champions. Parading around a naked slave in public is pretty harsh, and anti-slave cultures and people are going to get downright violent seeing this (IMHO).

Regardless, I am positive that anyone treated like this is going to want revenge. If I was playing this NPC and the PCs did such, I would be playing the slow con. Getting them to trust "me" and let down their guard. I would try and seduce a PC. I would try and seduce a powerful person who gets close to the PC group. I would try to secure my release.

Then I would hunt down these PCs for some sweet cold revenge.

She would make a splendid terrible reoccurring villain. The PCs totally deserve. :-)
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:38 PM   #4
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Default Re: question about public nudity, npg reaction and some other related stuff

I'm a little bothered by the possible implications of the turn of events you've described, Yafnag. You're very eager to make sure everything fits together with regard to how this situation unfolds... is everyone involved maintaining the right mindset? Nobody's projecting any preexisting biases onto things? (I have good reason to be overly cautious in this matter, so if I'm ******* in the wind feel free to say so and please, please don't take any offence as I most certainly don't intend any.)

That said... what's the climate of the region they're headed to? If it's cold, there's biological concerns from lack of clothing which she might well try to exacerbate if she knows she knows what they need to know.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:44 AM   #5
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Default Re: question about public nudity, npg reaction and some other related stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by starslayer View Post
This depends on other factors specific to your setting.

How does the world view slavery? Extended imprisonment?

Would stripping a person naked and keeping them in chains be something done to normal prisoners, or is this well over the spectrum of 'cruel and unusual punishment'

I think we also need to know what social skills she has and at what levels. Fast talk, sex appeal, acting, etc.

Quite frankly with such over the top appearance, coupled with voice, she just needs to find someone (like a guard) who will accept that +6 modifier for her grand total +8 and then with even mediocre skill she will be able to get a stellar reaction/influence roll and have the individual become her champion to free her from her predicament.

Here the information requested:

Here the complete character:

Nathalie Moreau [points: 238]
Human Thief; 5 ft 10 in; 123 pounds; age 25

ST 8
DX 15
IQ 13
HT 10
HP 8
Will 15
Per 13
FP 10

Advantages:
Appearance (Very Beautiful)
Danger Sense
Daredevil
Flexibility
High Manual Dexterity (1)
Voice

Disadvantages:
Greed
Social Stigma (Criminal Record)

quirks:
selfish


Skills
Acrobatics 15
Acting 13
Climbing 17 (because +3 Flexibility)
Cloak 14
Dancing 14
Detect Lies 13
Disguise (Human) 14
Fast-Talk 14 (because +2 Voice)
Filch 14
Gambling 13
Holdout 13
Intimidation 14
Lockpicking 13
Pickpocket 13
Savoir-Faire (High Society) 14
Savoir-Faire (Servant) 14
Sex Appeal (Human) 17 (becasue +6 Appearance and +2 Voice)
Shadowing 14
Stealth 14
Streetwise 13
Swimming 12
Thrown Weapon (Knife) 17


-------------------------

setting:


A cinematic caribbean adventure in 1600 [TL 4] with fantasy elements: magic is rare, no no-humand races, female swashbuckler are rare.

gurps swashbuckler say:

* One of the crudest pirates ever to have lived, L'Ollonois (the name is spelled many different ways, in true 17th-century style) was born in France. He was sent to the Caribbean as a slave, escaped, and became one of the buccaneers.

* England went through many phases in this period. The first ten years were Cromwell's dictatorship, which though not outrageously tyrannical, was still stifling.
Theaters were burned, sports and games banned, alehouses closed, and prostitutes and gamblers shipped out to the colonies as slaves. The Irish were ruthlessly suppressed - thousands were massacred and thousands more were shipped off to the Caribbean as slaves

* A favorite trick of English sea captains was to sail into an Irish port, offering passage to the New World. When asked the price, it was explained that payment would be deferred until the captain's next voyage, when the immigrant could be expected to have saved some money. Thousands of Irish men and women were transported this way - only to be sold as slaves in Barbados.

* The Caribbean colonies were established by the monarchies of Europe to be a reflection of their societies.
The division of classes was less rigid, though, with the slave population consisting of natives, then European indentured servants, and finally African slaves. They worked on large estates owned by minor noblemen or high-ranking military officers. Tropical crops, such as sugar cane and tobacco, commanded a high price in Europe.


So slavery is common, and nudity also among native enslaved and likely strip to show features in slave market. So I think that keeping a not native woman permanently almost naked in public is uncommon, but not illegal if she is a slave.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ketsuban View Post
I'm a little bothered by the possible implications of the turn of events you've described, Yafnag. You're very eager to make sure everything fits together with regard to how this situation unfolds... is everyone involved maintaining the right mindset? Nobody's projecting any preexisting biases onto things? (I have good reason to be overly cautious in this matter, so if I'm ******* in the wind feel free to say so and please, please don't take any offence as I most certainly don't intend any.)

That said... what's the climate of the region they're headed to? If it's cold, there's biological concerns from lack of clothing which she might well try to exacerbate if she knows she knows what they need to know.
The player not plan, I think, to torture her if this is what you worry. But they want to keep her in disconfrot for revenge and in order to make escape very difficult. Nakedness and chains are a way to humiliate her to make her cooperative, but are also useful to drag down her Acrobatics, Pickpocket, Intimidation, Stealth and Holdout skills.
I need a precise setting and rules because the campaign can develop in many way (the story have some strong point but give much to players decision and dice roll). To improvvise well, a carefully preparation is essential. Gurps have the quality to give advice for many situation, but with this one I'm are unprepared and so I had request help here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trechriron View Post
Regardless, I am positive that anyone treated like this is going to want revenge. If I was playing this NPC and the PCs did such, I would be playing the slow con. Getting them to trust "me" and let down their guard. I would try and seduce a PC. I would try and seduce a powerful person who gets close to the PC group. I would try to secure my release.

Then I would hunt down these PCs for some sweet cold revenge.

She would make a splendid terrible reoccurring villain. The PCs totally deserve. :-)
This is a good Idea!

Last edited by Yafnag; 01-23-2013 at 10:46 AM.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:49 AM   #6
Kromm
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Default Re: question about public nudity, npg reaction and some other related stuff

The biggest problem here is that someone with DX 15 and Flexibility has a default Escape skill of 12 . . . moving up to 15 if she can make a Will roll to dislocate something, which is trivial with her Will 15. Danger Sense ought to let her do so when nobody is paying attention. Toss in +1 for Daredevil if someone is paying attention. And note that TL4 chains and locks are pathetic – no penalty to Escape.

I can't imagine her staying in chains for long.

After that, Climbing-17 (!) means she could easily move around the ship out of sight, quite possibly reaching places the PCs don't even know about (it's a hired ship, not their ship). With Stealth-14, she'll most likely sneak into a cabin where the heroic PCs aren't, use Filch-14 to pinch clothing in a way that doesn't make it obvious, and then use Disguise-14 to become a sailor. If she's worried about an inspection, well . . . she's Selfish. She'll pick a skinny sailor to rob, knife him, and take his place. Any other sailor who starts getting nosy would be easily convinced to say nothing via Sex Appeal-17.

To be honest, I'd ignore the social angle here and focus on the thief-catching, because just throwing someone like this in chains aboard a ship where the crew's loyalty is bought with coin, not ensured through an Ally advantage, is bound to go wrong. It would be a far more interesting adventure that way. If nothing else, it would show the PCs the value of personally loyal crew, and of negotiating with clever thieves rather than insulting them and giving them cause to wreak havoc.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:14 AM   #7
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Default Re: question about public nudity, npg reaction and some other related stuff

Doctor Kromm, one question:
What does Selfish have to do with knifing a sailor? It's one of those not-obvious-name traits, and the text of it doesn't seem to have anything to do with Callous or the lack of Reluctant Killer.
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:25 PM   #8
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Default Re: question about public nudity, npg reaction and some other related stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post

Doctor Kromm, one question:
What does Selfish have to do with knifing a sailor? It's one of those not-obvious-name traits, and the text of it doesn't seem to have anything to do with Callous or the lack of Reluctant Killer.
I'd call it a straightforward case of "Make a self-control roll whenever you experience a clear social slight or 'snub.' On a failure, you lash out at the offending party just as if you had Bad Temper." Here we have someone who has been socially demeaned: treated like a slave in the OP's world – like someone with Status -2 and/or Social Stigma (Valuable Property or Subjugated) – despite having Status 0 and nothing worse than Social Stigma (Criminal Record). So she's very likely to lash out. Hired goons (sailors) in the employ of those who did her wrong are valid targets, being essentially instruments of those who offended her. I didn't say that she would go on a killing spree, but Bad Temper (the effect here) can lead to violence, and if she had reason to suspect that not killing her target might compromise her vengeance . . . well, she has no code against killing (that's an actual disadvantage in GURPS, and she lacks it).
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Old 01-23-2013, 01:32 PM   #9
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Default Re: question about public nudity, npg reaction and some other related stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Social Stigma (Valuable Property or Subjugated)
Oh my, instant, second, follow-up question.
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Old 01-24-2013, 05:06 AM   #10
Yafnag
 
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Default Re: question about public nudity, npg reaction and some other related stuff

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
The biggest problem here is that someone with DX 15 and Flexibility has a default Escape skill of 12 . . . moving up to 15 if she can make a Will roll to dislocate something, which is trivial with her Will 15. Danger Sense ought to let her do so when nobody is paying attention. Toss in +1 for Daredevil if someone is paying attention. And note that TL4 chains and locks are pathetic – no penalty to Escape.

I can't imagine her staying in chains for long.

After that, Climbing-17 (!) means she could easily move around the ship out of sight, quite possibly reaching places the PCs don't even know about (it's a hired ship, not their ship). With Stealth-14, she'll most likely sneak into a cabin where the heroic PCs aren't, use Filch-14 to pinch clothing in a way that doesn't make it obvious, and then use Disguise-14 to become a sailor. If she's worried about an inspection, well . . . she's Selfish. She'll pick a skinny sailor to rob, knife him, and take his place. Any other sailor who starts getting nosy would be easily convinced to say nothing via Sex Appeal-17.

To be honest, I'd ignore the social angle here and focus on the thief-catching, because just throwing someone like this in chains aboard a ship where the crew's loyalty is bought with coin, not ensured through an Ally advantage, is bound to go wrong. It would be a far more interesting adventure that way. If nothing else, it would show the PCs the value of personally loyal crew, and of negotiating with clever thieves rather than insulting them and giving them cause to wreak havoc.
Interesting observations, I would have supposed that arms and legs chained are more effective.
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