[ATE] Farming example

[Luke Bunyip]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

But would bogongs have the necessary sugar or starch content to be useful for fermenting?

I'd say yes. IIRC gorging on moths would result in appreciable weight gain, which would suggest a sufficient content for either.

[(E)]

Rabbits I hadn't thought of specifically. But related to that I did some musing about hunting (which is likely to be more common than in an equivalent human society) and came up with Orcish hunting dogs, which would have been bred from Short-eared dogs rather than wolves. I was picturing a smaller comparatively stealthy terrier as a result. Possibly also used as a cattle dog.


I did consider a porcine based digestive system, the results would have been too close to humans to make a meaningful difference.


The demand for salt is less a dietary issue than an issue of practicality. Storing meat long-term is easier with salt. Though there are is a huge range of fermentation based methods of meat storage. From salami type products to "Rotten Crayfish" which is simply allowed to ferment in fresh water. (Well, simply by, someone who knows how to do it properly)


As for alcohol, I have seen what I remember as an animal based alcohol but for the life if me I can't track down a reference.* While in our world honey ants are found in arid areas a similar species would make for an interesting spin on mead. Also as a result of the primary carnivore digestive system alcohol would likely hit orcs faster than humans.

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by Luke Bunyip

I'd say yes. IIRC gorging on moths would result in appreciable weight gain, which would suggest a sufficient content for either.

I thought that was due to their fat content, but I haven't checked up on it.

Originally Posted by (E)

Rabbits I hadn't thought of specifically. But related to that I did some musing about hunting (which is likely to be more common than in an equivalent human society) and came up with Orcish hunting dogs, which would have been bred from Short-eared dogs rather than wolves. I was picturing a smaller comparatively stealthy terrier as a result. Possibly also used as a cattle dog.

Would it be possible to breed pigs or something more exotic to the role? I believe alpacas are used to guard sheep now, though "dire orcish alpaca" sounds more amusing than the tone we're looking for.

The demand for salt is less a dietary issue than an issue of practicality. Storing meat long-term is easier with salt. Though there are is a huge range of fermentation based methods of meat storage. From salami type products to "Rotten Crayfish" which is simply allowed to ferment in fresh water. (Well, simply by, someone who knows how to do it properly)

Well, canine food storage is burying a bone in the ground until it rots a bit, so the orcs could have a similar fermentation method. It would also soften up the tough buffalo meat.

As for alcohol, I have seen what I remember as an animal based alcohol but for the life if me I can't track down a reference.* While in our world honey ants are found in arid areas a similar species would make for an interesting spin on mead. Also as a result of the primary carnivore digestive system alcohol would likely hit orcs faster than humans.

Note also that humans evolved resistance to alcohol so they could eat fermented fruit that had killed off any resident parasites. If orcs evolutionarily didn't rely on fruit they wouldn't have gained this resistance, unless there was a similar benefit available in a naturally occuring animal/insect based alcohol.

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

Well, canine food storage is burying a bone in the ground until it rots a bit, so the orcs could have a similar fermentation method. It would also soften up the tough buffalo meat.

This suggests a possible orcish warband campaign tactic. They could drive a herd of water buffalo through or toward target territory weeks or months before an intended invasion, in the autumn, say. Each night, a few buffalo are culled off and their carcasses buried to rot for a while. They could trample over the burial sites to hide them from travellers, and scouts observing the herd would have to be very alert to notice its gradual reduction.

Then, when campaign season starts after the spring thaw, the horde can move quickly through by taking advantage of the cached food supplies.

[Luke Bunyip]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

I thought that was due to their fat content, but I haven't checked up on it.

Upon consideration, I think you're right.

[(E)]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

SNIP
Would it be possible to breed pigs or something more exotic to the role? I believe alpacas are used to guard sheep now, though "dire orcish alpaca" sounds more amusing than the tone we're looking for.

most, if not all the guard/utility animals I can think of like that are canines. (An argument could be made for pigs) However there is the
Judas Goat concept. Taking that idea a bit further a Cape Buffalo could (theoretically and with much caution) be hand reared and act as both a lead animal and a protector that even lions would fear. The rest of the herd could be kept as the more productive swamp buffalo breed.

Well, canine food storage is burying a bone in the ground until it rots a bit, so the orcs could have a similar fermentation method. It would also soften up the tough buffalo meat.

SNIP

Originally Posted by Daigoro

This suggests a possible orcish warband campaign tactic. They could drive a herd of water buffalo through or toward target territory weeks or months before an intended invasion, in the autumn, say. Each night, a few buffalo are culled off and their carcasses buried to rot for a while. They could trample over the burial sites to hide them from travellers, and scouts observing the herd would have to be very alert to notice its gradual reduction.

Then, when campaign season starts after the spring thaw, the horde can move quickly through by taking advantage of the cached food supplies.

Thinking about this idea I could see a more developed form of burying food for later develop, with care being taken to create the best environment for the right biological processes to take place. Careful application of salt and spices, even things like skinning and boning out the animal and stitching the prepared meat back in the hide with care being taken to ensure the depth and moisture level of the hole are just right.

Rations for the outward leg of the war party's trip may be more of a dog biscuit/pemmican/hard tack type creation, very rich food with a high energy to weight ratio. Along the lines of what Daigoro suggested earlier.

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by (E)

most, if not all the guard/utility animals I can think of like that are canines. (An argument could be made for pigs) However there is the
Judas Goat concept. Taking that idea a bit further a Cape Buffalo could (theoretically and with much caution) be hand reared and act as both a lead animal and a protector that even lions would fear. The rest of the herd could be kept as the more productive swamp buffalo.

Some info on guard llamas and alpacas - Wiki, Article.
Nonetheless, they're better suited to guarding sheep than cattle, and probably a better match for the dwarven farmers than orcs. And animals as dangerous as cape buffalo probably don't need much in the way of protection anyway.

Thinking about this idea I could see a more developed form of burying food for later develop, with care being taken to create the best environment for the right biological processes to take place. Careful application of salt and spices, even things like skinning and boning out the animal and stitching the prepared meat back in with care being taken to ensure the depth and moisture level of the hole are just right.

They might have select soils which give preferred results, depending on pH, sun exposure, drainage and bacterial load. Would they be able to use one aging pit repeatedly, or would a fresh patch of dirt be needed for each carcass?

[(E)]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

Some info on guard llamas and alpacas - Wiki, Article.
Nonetheless, they're better suited to guarding sheep than cattle, and probably a better match for the dwarven farmers than orcs. And animals as dangerous as cape buffalo probably don't need much in the way of protection anyway.


They might have select soils which give preferred results, depending on pH, sun exposure, drainage and bacterial load. Would they be able to use one aging pit repeatedly, or would a fresh patch of dirt be needed for each carcass?

I wasn't aware of the Alpacas as guard animals, its always good to find out more stuff.

As for the repeated use of ageing pits I could see benefits to either approach. a fresh pit would be a more controlled environment while an existing pit may have a population of beneficial microbes to help the process. Using the same pit more than once would make for easier digging.
It could be one of those topics that the older orcs discuss and argue the finer points of, while the younger orcs dig.

On a side note I've started a thread to brainstorm ideas about Elven Agriculture

[Daigoro]

Originally Posted by (E)

As for the repeated use of ageing pits I could see benefits to either approach. a fresh pit would be a more controlled environment while an existing pit may have a population of beneficial microbes to help the process. Using the same pit more than once would make for easier digging.
It could be one of those topics that the older orcs discuss and argue the finer points of, while the younger orcs dig.

Needing fresh ageing pits constantly could mean they have to practice field rotation or it might even force regular migrations, depending on how scarce the suitable soil type is. Perhaps they have a cyclical migration pattern. A tribe might move its settlement a few dozen kilometres every decade around a circuit, returning to a site after 50 or 60 years. The tribe's range would encompass the whole circuit, keeping away foreign settlers from their fallow settlements, even though they're only living off the area around one village.

In either case, the settlement would have a distinctive smell. As for the beneficial microbes, they might have the custom of keeping a scrap of meat from the last pit to start the next pit, perhaps attaching some degree of ceremony to the process.

And how would they handle fortifications?

[(E)]

Originally Posted by Daigoro

And how would they handle fortifications?

That is an interesting question and one that will have take into account more than I have looked at here. That being said there are some influencing factors that have come up during the research I've been doing.

The comparative rarity of charcoal combined with iron tools means that repairing iron tools is more difficult, fully dressed stone is therefore more difficult to produce. Any towering stone structures are going to be more expensive in terms of labour, but that being said various cultures have built large stone structures with less.

Relying on Livestock as opposed to crops does allow them a huge advantage in terms of mobility when dealing with invading forces. Almost the entirety of the food wealth of a village can simply be moved when danger threatens. Related to this is the increased chance of a cattle raiding culture developing.

The terrain around Kjanikatu is the result of historic volcanic action, so in this case at least there should be an area of higher rocky ground somewhere not too far away. One interpretation of this could be the traditional Volcano lair, I could easily see a naturally defensible area with a sprawling defensive structure large enough to hold huge numbers of animals. This area would be devoted to bulky low feed quality plants to sustain the animals for as long as possible, Pampas grass, Willows and several other plant and tree varieties could fill the role. There may even be artificial waterways for eels or even a Hay tithe. (Only very slightly related to this is the Pika who deserves mention as a Hay maker extraordinaire)

If animals were to be regularly moved to a secure location then nutrient migration would cause an otherwise rocky area to develop quite a fertile soil.