Print-On-Demand: GURPS Mysteries and GURPS Spaceships

[philreed]

Two more titles added to the selection of print-on-demand GURPS softcovers -- http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/ondemand/ -- pushing the total number of available books through Amazon's CreateSpace service to eight! Our experiment with POD books continues, and we will look at the numbers again in June.

* GURPS Mysteries -- https://www.amazon.com/dp/1556348177...evejacksongame

* GURPS Spaceships -- https://www.amazon.com/dp/1556348169...evejacksongame

Also available:

* GURPS Bio-Tech http://www.amazon.com/dp/1556348142/...evejacksongame

* GURPS High-Tech http://www.amazon.com/dp/1556348126/...evejacksongame

* GURPS Infinite Worlds http://www.amazon.com/dp/1556348134/...evejacksongame

* GURPS Magic http://www.amazon.com/dp/1556348118/...evejacksongame

* GURPS Thaumatology http://www.amazon.com/dp/1556348096/...evejacksongame

* GURPS Ultra-Tech http://www.amazon.com/dp/155634810X/...evejacksongame

[weby]

Hmm.. GURPS Mysteries, the third edition book masquerading as fourth edition. Definitely an "interesting" choice.

[philreed]

Originally Posted by weby

Hmm.. GURPS Mysteries, the third edition book masquerading as fourth edition. Definitely an "interesting" choice.

We have to test a broad range of titles. The next two are -- as you say -- "interesting" in other ways.

The Steve Jackson Games catalog of OOP books is deep. What we need to determine is whether or not there's a pool of titles that will be the magic bullet and make these efforts worth the time invested in them.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by weby

Hmm.. GURPS Mysteries, the third edition book masquerading as fourth edition. Definitely an "interesting" choice.

This is one of the old soft-covers, so I presume it generally sells well. These are also the first two "slim" books, pdfs made POD, so that's interesting. I think SJGames is seeing if softcovers are profitable in this model as well. If so, we might see a lot more PDFs in print (though, I'm surprised to see DF not one of the first in the list. Is Spaceships really a better seller? Or perhaps they're holding off until the new version of DF is finished)?

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

... These are also the first two "slim" books, pdfs made POD, so that's interesting. ... (though, I'm surprised to see DF not one of the first in the list. Is Spaceships really a better seller? Or perhaps they're holding off until the new version of DF is finished)?

Both of these have had softcover PoD-like printings in the past, so they may well have been easy to prepare. Spaceships is particularly useful to have in hardcopy, because it's full of tables that you need to consult when designing ships.

SJG will want to get the DFRPG moving steadily through the distribution system, and having something else with a similar title available on Amazon is an excellent way to create confusion.

Ordered both of these.

[CaptainNemo]

Hi! Since my initial post about the high costs for certain GURPS Supplements, I couldn't help but notice the going price for a Martial Arts 4th is now $95 and still rising. Psionic Powers is still only available from oversea, and is well over $300. Normally, if the price is that high, it shows a demand. How about it? Do you want to make this set another Amazon Print-on-demand property or what?

[philreed]

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

Hi! Since my initial post about the high costs for certain GURPS Supplements, I couldn't help but notice the going price for a Martial Arts 4th is now $95 and still rising. Psionic Powers is still only available from oversea, and is well over $300. Normally, if the price is that high, it shows a demand. How about it? Do you want to make this set another Amazon Print-on-demand property or what?

We're still in the experimentation phase. It is too early to state what will/will not find its way into print-on-demand. We are aware of the market, and we are taking the steps necessary to collect real data on demand.

Producing these books is not free. Each costs staff time to prepare. And check. And fix. And check.

We'll continue the experiment a little longer before coming to a final decision.

[Phil Masters]

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

Normally, if the price is that high, it shows a demand.

Not necessarily. On Amazon, it may merely indicate a secondary seller with a flaky automatic pricing algorithm, who would hope to source the book from somewhere else should someone be desperate enough to place an order.

Amazon book pricing is sometimes an exercise in spontaneous surrealism.

[Darkholme]

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

Hi! Since my initial post about the high costs for certain GURPS Supplements, I couldn't help but notice the going price for a Martial Arts 4th is now $95 and still rising. Psionic Powers is still only available from oversea, and is well over $300. Normally, if the price is that high, it shows a demand. How about it? Do you want to make this set another Amazon Print-on-demand property or what?

I feel for you. There are some GURPS books that I want that are also crazy expensive, and things are more dire up here in Canada. 4e Martial Arts runs (used) $270-$7xx on amazon when I look for it up here.

As I mentioned last thread; if POD doesn't pan out, I'll have to run the numbers, and consider the cost of picking up some good paper, printing them on my laser printer, and doing them up for my shelf with DIY bookbinding techniques.

Originally Posted by Phil Masters

Not necessarily. On Amazon, it may merely indicate a secondary seller with a flaky automatic pricing algorithm, who would hope to source the book from somewhere else should someone be desperate enough to place an order.

Huh. Good to know. Prices do seem a little bit cheaper for Martial Arts on eBay, even after you consider shipping and import fees. Powers is about the same either way, roughly $160 (Which is still more than I will pay for a book, it's just too much).

Originally Posted by philreed

We're still in the experimentation phase. It is too early to state what will/will not find its way into print-on-demand. We are aware of the market, and we are taking the steps necessary to collect real data on demand.

Producing these books is not free. Each costs staff time to prepare. And check. And fix. And check.

We'll continue the experiment a little longer before coming to a final decision.

I can very much appreciate your position as well. You're a business, whatever you do needs to make financial sense, and if man-hour costs are not exceeded by profits, that's not sustainable. Whatever decisions you make will obviously need to be based on an assessment of the results of this experiment, and will presumably include an assessment of what books to print, and how frequently new books get added to Amazon, etc. I can hope for particular titles to crop up and throw my support behind them as the titles you choose to post next, but that's not a demand, that's just me telling you what products I will happily trade funds for.



Doing the math for how much it would cost me to print (B&W) and bind it myself (in comparable quality to the POD item) - it's like $0.05/page in toner, maybe $0.75 in adhesive, $0.01/page for paper (depending on paper quality and how "in bulk" I buy it), Plus a couple of bucks to have a cover printed elsewhere on heavy glossy color cardstock. (on top of the cost for the PDF if its not one you already bought). So where GURPS Powers has 240 pages (double sided), that's $12+$0.75+$1.2+($5?) - Ballpark $20+PDF Cost($25USD=~$35CAD)=$55, plus a couple hours of work, and the startup cost of any reusable equipment used for binding things myself (Binding Block, Paper Trimmer perhaps, paintbrushes for the glue, maybe a drill or awl if I want to reinforce the spine with stitching before I stick it in a cover), that I don't have already for other purposes.

I'd consider it for the ones whose used purchase price is north of $150 (and there are a few of them I want - for more than just GURPS - things are obnoxiously harder to find north of the border), but I really hope the POD does well, because all of that is still significantly more expensive than POD, and also pain in the ass to do - and most people seem to be less inclined to look at DIY solutions to problems than I am.

[weby]

Originally Posted by philreed

We have to test a broad range of titles. The next two are -- as you say -- "interesting" in other ways.

Originally Posted by Mailanka

This is one of the old soft-covers, so I presume it generally sells well. These are also the first two "slim" books, pdfs made POD, so that's interesting. I think SJGames is seeing if softcovers are profitable in this model as well. If so, we might see a lot more PDFs in print (though, I'm surprised to see DF not one of the first in the list. Is Spaceships really a better seller? Or perhaps they're holding off until the new version of DF is finished)?

I mostly meant the fact that it is one of the books that were apparently originally made for third edition but then converted to fourth while missing large parts of the conversion. It has things like snapshot numbers, DV video cameras being TL 7, hearing rules based on third edition method and such.

So either new new printing has all those errors or correcting them likely took quite a lot of work, either of those two choices just seem strange for me.