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Old 06-25-2014, 06:19 PM   #21
Not another shrubbery
 
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Default Re: create object/duplicate on firearms

I don't see a big problem with allowing Duplicate to copy a loaded gun. Created or Duplicated bullets aren't going to be much good anyway. Your best bet is to have real ammo on hand to load your new gun with.
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Old 06-25-2014, 06:28 PM   #22
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Default Re: create object/duplicate on firearms

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Originally Posted by Pluribus View Post
I already explained the gun store scenario.
My point is that it's silly to take the gun safety rules as a literal description of how firearms behave in the real world. You don't even do that when you are following them; it's basically a figure of speech. If it was literal then you'd never actually load a weapon, or be able to "Unload. Show Clear." I'm objecting to taking a figure of speech literally and expecting sensible results.

EDIT: Maybe I'm just really sensitive to people deliberately misunderstanding weapons safety instructions.

Last edited by sir_pudding; 06-25-2014 at 09:10 PM.
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Old 06-25-2014, 06:31 PM   #23
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Default Re: create object/duplicate on firearms

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
If it's really giving you guys this much tsuris just make a new spell! Prereqs can be Cornucopia
I've always used just used Cornucopia based on the cost of the loaded weapon.
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Old 06-25-2014, 06:39 PM   #24
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Default Re: create object/duplicate on firearms

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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
I don't see a big problem with allowing Duplicate to copy a loaded gun. Created or Duplicated bullets aren't going to be much good anyway. Your best bet is to have real ammo on hand to load your new gun with.
Specifically this is how the Gunhand variant of the Partial Mechamorphosis spell on p.18 of Technomancer works. You can turn your hand into a pistol but it's not loaded unless you had ammo in the affected hand when you cast the spell.

There is one thing to note about the Duplicate spell. If you look in the Item section it's possible to create Permanent Duplicates for 100x casting coast. That's the only way I can think of off-hand to whip up shootable ammo out of thin air
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Old 06-25-2014, 08:29 PM   #25
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Default Re: create object/duplicate on firearms

I don't have a problem with Duplicate including bullets with a gun, gasoline with a car, or ink with a pen or printer. IMO, the spell should produce an object which is just as functional as the original, and as long as the core object remains in contact with a living thing, the bullets, exhaust fumes, or writing produced exist at least as long as the Duplicated object does.
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Old 06-25-2014, 08:59 PM   #26
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Default Re: create object/duplicate on firearms

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I don't have a problem with Duplicate including bullets with a gun, gasoline with a car, or ink with a pen or printer. IMO, the spell should produce an object which is just as functional as the original, and as long as the core object remains in contact with a living thing, the bullets, exhaust fumes, or writing produced exist at least as long as the Duplicated object does.
That makes it an enormously more powerful spell. The original purpose of this limit after all has nothing to do with guns, but money. If I can chop bits off my piece of hacksilver and they won't vanish as long as I keep touching the main piece, I've circumvented the easy counterfeit test built into the spell.
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:05 PM   #27
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Default Re: create object/duplicate on firearms

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That makes it an enormously more powerful spell. The original purpose of this limit after all has nothing to do with guns, but money. If I can chop bits off my piece of hacksilver and they won't vanish as long as I keep touching the main piece, I've circumvented the easy counterfeit test built into the spell.
Hacksilver is an interesting case. I suppose I would argue that breaking off pieces of silver (or cheese) is different than a gun or pen which remains conceptually the same gun or pen after it is used. The hacksilver or cheese wheel is altered, becoming a smaller piece of material, which isn't true of the object using an internal consumable.
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Old 06-25-2014, 09:09 PM   #28
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Default Re: create object/duplicate on firearms

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Originally Posted by Dustin View Post
Hacksilver is an interesting case. I suppose I would argue that breaking off pieces of silver (or cheese) is different than a gun or pen which remains conceptually the same gun or pen after it is used. The hacksilver or cheese wheel is altered, becoming a smaller piece of material, which isn't true of the object using an internal consumable.
Then I Duplicate a sack of money. The sack remains a sack.

Or I just sell bullets...
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:51 PM   #29
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Default Re: create object/duplicate on firearms

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Then I Duplicate a sack of money. The sack remains a sack.
I would argue that "container of X" is not Duplicatable, any more than "fistful of dollars" or "trunkful of guns" is.

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Or I just sell bullets...
I'm OK with that -- if pure economic mayhem is a concern, there are much more worrisome spells out there. Create Fuel at TL7 produces a pound of uranium for 7 energy from a rock, and is truly permanent. The magic bullet vendor isn't a campaign breaker the same way.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:56 PM   #30
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Default Re: create object/duplicate on firearms

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I would argue that "container of X" is not Duplicatable, any more than "fistful of dollars" or "trunkful of guns" is.
A magazine is a container of cartridges.
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