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Old 01-18-2019, 11:23 AM   #1
phayman53
 
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Default How to handle 2 Different Senses of Duty of different sizes

As a GM, how would you handle a PC that wants to have two senses of duty to different groups of different sizes? The example in question is Sense of Duty (Coreligionists) [usually -10 points for one large group] and Sense of Duty (Adventuring Companions) [usually -5 points for a small group]. In this case, not all of the character's adventuring companions are of the same religion, but the character still feels a similar sense of duty to them because they are his companions in arms. I could also see different combinations that are possible: Sense of Duty to a Small group and to a single person independent of that group, Sense of Duty to a Nation and to a small group independent of that nation, etc. I see two main possibilities and one additional one that is less clean:

1) Give the character both disadvantages independently, resulting in a total of -15 points, because both are separate and there is a possibility of them conflicting. In such a case the character would have a dilemma that would make roleplaying even more challenging.

2) Give the character one disadvantage for Sense of Duty (Coreligionists and Adventuring Companions) for -10 points because the smaller group is subsumed into the larger one and doesn't make a meaningful difference in how many people the character holds a sense of duty towards even though the groups are distinct.

3) Give the character Sense of Duty (Coreligionists) and a quirk of something like "Treats adventuring companions with the same regard as coreligionists".

Thoughts?
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Old 01-18-2019, 11:31 AM   #2
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Default Re: How to handle 2 Different Senses of Duty of different sizes

I note down both, give the character the points for the Disadvantage that best fits the total number of beings affected by his Sense of Duty and ask the player to keep in mind how his character would prioritize in situations where they conflict.

I freely allow speculations and interesting notes about how to treat conflicts as Disadvantage Embellishment Quirks.
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Old 01-18-2019, 11:44 AM   #3
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Default Re: How to handle 2 Different Senses of Duty of different sizes

They always have that cliche of, "I didn't fight for a cause or country but for my buddies." Of course he enlisted (or at least didn't bother to run for the border) for his country at the vary least, unless he is a professional who could not get any other job.

In that case SoD would pertain when it is relevant. Once someone is stacked into a unit like a brick there is no need for patriotism. Discipline will suffice as will self preservation (for the best way to survive is to kill the other guy first) and honor (for no one wants their last wound in the back), and SoD to the tentmates however a given army's TOE defines such.
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Old 01-18-2019, 11:50 AM   #4
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Default Re: How to handle 2 Different Senses of Duty of different sizes

I am very reluctant ever to allow two SoDs. My normal policy would be to ask how big the total group is and allow one SoD of appropriate size. That way, on one hand, you don't have the (at least theoretical) possibility of someone taking SoD humanity AND SoD British Empire AND SoD my combat unit AND SoD my family for nearly twice the maximal value of a single SoD; on the other, if a situation arises where you need to help both, say, your family and your country, and you have to choose, the conflict is internal to the one SoD that covers both. So it just seems neater all around.
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Old 01-18-2019, 11:54 AM   #5
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Default Re: How to handle 2 Different Senses of Duty of different sizes

What about assigning a self control number to each and allowing them to be bought separately? That way each is handled independently, and conflicts are decided by the dice? It is more a rules solution than a role-playing solution, but might be an interesting alternative.
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Old 01-18-2019, 12:01 PM   #6
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Default Re: How to handle 2 Different Senses of Duty of different sizes

One way is that you can lose reputation points with the party chosen when you chose.

Byron Henry had a conflict between SoD (Country) and Extremely Hazardous Duty (naval officer) and SoD (Family) in War and Remembrance. He made vague compromises between the two that probably would not have lost him personal opinion of fellow officers but might well have gotten him an unsat for impertinence.
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Old 01-18-2019, 12:30 PM   #7
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Default Re: How to handle 2 Different Senses of Duty of different sizes

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
My normal policy would be to ask how big the total group is and allow one SoD of appropriate size.
Agreed, that's how I handle it. There's really nothing "natural" about the groups defined by the various Senses of Duty. "Adventuring Companions" have nothing necessarily in common besides the fact that they adventure with you, for instance. So "Sense of Duty: Co-religionists and adventuring companions" is really no harder to define, and just as subject to conflicts and such as having both "Sense of Duty: Co-Religionists" and "Sense of Duty: Adventuring Companions" on your sheet.

If adding the two groups together would make life more complicated for the character, but doesn't feel like it reaches the next size category for Sense of Duty, I'm generally willing to bump up the disadvantage value of Sense of Duty by a couple of points, just to make it feel fairer. For example, if you had Sense of Duty: Adventuring Companions and My Old Army Platoon, both of which are small groups by default and don't really feel like together they add up to a large group, I'd be willing to rate that at -7 points, rather than -5.
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Old 01-18-2019, 12:41 PM   #8
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Default Re: How to handle 2 Different Senses of Duty of different sizes

I'd also be reluctant to allow two Senses of Duty that overlap. This case meets my test requirements as the relationships are distinct. Your party are people who have earned your respect and they have been dutiful when you need them. On the other hand they have a religious devotional obligation to serve those of your faith. Despite being the same Disadvantage, it is triggered by different circumstances and forces different extents of behavior.

If you have two Sense of Duties that come into conflict you don't choose. It's not a behavior that triggers some of the time. It is a moral limit of your character to not fail either group. You wouldn't simply continue to fight for a compromise where neither group loses. If such a situation can where you HAD to fail one group or the other you would either have to atone for your failing or you'd need to acknowledge that your Sense of Duty wasn't so strong as you thought and you'd have to pay off the disadvantage.
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Old 01-18-2019, 12:42 PM   #9
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Default Re: How to handle 2 Different Senses of Duty of different sizes

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Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen View Post
If adding the two groups together would make life more complicated for the character, but doesn't feel like it reaches the next size category for Sense of Duty, I'm generally willing to bump up the disadvantage value of Sense of Duty by a couple of points, just to make it feel fairer. For example, if you had Sense of Duty: Adventuring Companions and My Old Army Platoon, both of which are small groups by default and don't really feel like together they add up to a large group, I'd be willing to rate that at -7 points, rather than -5.
I can sort of see that, but I might incline to treat one as an alternative disability for one-fifth points. I could see either doing that for the smaller group, if one is smaller, or doing it for the group with lower priority, as "SoD if the higher ranked SoD doesn't come up." In either variant this would be -6 for what you propose.
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Old 01-18-2019, 01:10 PM   #10
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Default Re: How to handle 2 Different Senses of Duty of different sizes

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Originally Posted by Black Leviathan View Post
I'd also be reluctant to allow two Senses of Duty that overlap. This case meets my test requirements as the relationships are distinct. Your party are people who have earned your respect and they have been dutiful when you need them. On the other hand they have a religious devotional obligation to serve those of your faith. Despite being the same Disadvantage, it is triggered by different circumstances and forces different extents of behavior.

If you have two Sense of Duties that come into conflict you don't choose. It's not a behavior that triggers some of the time. It is a moral limit of your character to not fail either group. You wouldn't simply continue to fight for a compromise where neither group loses. If such a situation can where you HAD to fail one group or the other you would either have to atone for your failing or you'd need to acknowledge that your Sense of Duty wasn't so strong as you thought and you'd have to pay off the disadvantage.
SoD will often overlap and reinforce sometimes and unravel another.

Ben-Gurion once said that the point of being a state is that everyone fights for the state not the kibbutz. What he meant was that everyone fought for other people's kibbutzes and had to trust that other people would fight for there's in turn. That is how SoD (nation) and SoD (community) overlap hypothetically.

In practice when an enemy is getting to close to a given settlement a soldier from said settlement has to decide whether or not to go Awol and protect it.

There is a gruesome story that is magnificent in a weird, and appalling sort of way that I read. The Rajputs, were besieged by the Maratha in some war long ago. One Rajput warrior decided the game was up and ran inside the castle to save his wife from the up-and-coming sack. His wife seeing it lit herself on fire, and mad with grief the Rajput warrior returned to the battlements to die honorably and vainly.
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