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Old 03-04-2012, 09:43 AM   #51
The Cardinal
 
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Default Re: [IW] Non-Nazi Germany-Dominant World?

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But given how the musket equipped Russian troops fared against the Minié ball equipped British troops in the Crimean War, it is not inconceivable that a popular German army at least partly equipped with the needle-fired rifle (which was a top secret Prussian weapon in 1848) could stood it's ground.
A truly republican-democratic leadership could have liberated the non-Russian countries.
When the dust settles Germany could be the de-facto leader of an republican anti-Russian block (Poland, Belorussia, the Baltic, Finland, part of the the Balkans). "The enemy of my enemy" and all that.

I really like that option: a german-lead "Eastern Bloc" of republican and democratic nations. Together with a liberal mindset this could result in a "eastern renaissance" driven by educated jewish/german intellectuals... - which would also be a massive loss to the US of A, since thousands of east-european jews would have no reason to leave their homelands...
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:19 AM   #52
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Default Re: [IW] Non-Nazi Germany-Dominant World?

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Though, I feel compelled to add that alternate history in literature (in the widest sense) does often fall short of what would be even remotely likely (e.g. S. M. Stirling's Draka series).
As Infinite Worlds: Britannica-6 points out, the reign of Queen Victoria falls short of what would be even remotely likely - but it still happened.

I don't see this as a valid objection to any alternate history. If something couldn't happen at all, that's a good objection, but if something was merely "extremely unlikely," then one need to recognize that unlikely things do happen.
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:33 AM   #53
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Default Re: [IW] Non-Nazi Germany-Dominant World?

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As Infinite Worlds: Britannica-6 points out, the reign of Queen Victoria falls short of what would be even remotely likely - but it still happened.
One odd roll of the genetic and/or political dice - like Vicky (or more precisely, the demise of Princess Charlotte and her child) - is one thing. A whole string of improbabilities is quite another.

Not saying that this makes any alternate history good or bad. Just that different criteria apply.
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:07 AM   #54
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Default Re: [IW] Non-Nazi Germany-Dominant World?

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Germany was very progressive with Jews before Hitler...
I read a book once that claimed that the German Jews had assimilated to a degree not seen anywhere else except Scandinavia.


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Old 03-04-2012, 11:30 AM   #55
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Default Re: [IW] Non-Nazi Germany-Dominant World?

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Huh? What are we talking about here or is this one part of the alternative history?
Err, yes, what else ?

The backstory is that a Bavarian military bureaucrat is ordering a few hundred (fictional) repeating rifles from the US. His english isn´t good enough to realize that the advertisment was not for plain weapons, but for the rilfemen as well, hardened and experienced civil war veterans, who not only birng superior firepower, but also tactics unheard of in central europe at the time.
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:41 AM   #56
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Err, yes, what else ?

The backstory is that a Bavarian military bureaucrat is ordering a few hundred (fictional) repeating rifles from the US.
What fiction do you need? The Henry was actually uised in the Civil War and the Winchester model 1866 which ironed most of the kinks out of the Henry was brand new in 1866.

The fiction might be about the tactics. The US military doesn't seem to have realized the potential of magazine-fed rapid-fire rifles for many, many years. They wouldn't have issued all those trap-door Springfields if they had.
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:00 PM   #57
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Default Re: [IW] Non-Nazi Germany-Dominant World?

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What fiction do you need? The Henry was actually uised in the Civil War and the Winchester model 1866 which ironed most of the kinks out of the Henry was brand new in 1866.

The fiction might be about the tactics. The US military doesn't seem to have realized the potential of magazine-fed rapid-fire rifles for many, many years. They wouldn't have issued all those trap-door Springfields if they had.
IIRC the Spencer passed all US Army testing in 1857. The War department grogs came up with the possibility soldiers with repeating rifles wuld waste ammo as the excuse to stay with muskets. The Henry got the go ahead because Lincoln personally test fired it and told the Army to get them.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:46 PM   #58
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Default Re: [IW] Non-Nazi Germany-Dominant World?

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What fiction do you need? The Henry was actually uised in the Civil War and the Winchester model 1866 which ironed most of the kinks out of the Henry was brand new in 1866.

The fiction might be about the tactics. The US military doesn't seem to have realized the potential of magazine-fed rapid-fire rifles for many, many years. They wouldn't have issued all those trap-door Springfields if they had.
For the US it was as much a money issue as anything. The Federal government of the time was chronically cash starved and had few ways of raising revenue. Heck the ACW was the 1st time there was an income tax and it was tiny by any standards.

Also the Dreyus needle gun was used extensively in the Austria-Prussian war of 1866 It was the forerunner of the modern bolt rifle and for the period had a lot of firepower. I don't think the shorter range pistol carbines would have made that great difference.

One caveat though, its perfectly plausible technological leap to the more modern bolt action rifle design gained from exploration of the two technologies might have made a difference. A fast loading 5 shot Jaeger rifle with stripper clips and modern ammo would have been deadly till powder fouling caught up with it.
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Old 03-04-2012, 11:58 PM   #59
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Default Re: [IW] Non-Nazi Germany-Dominant World?

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What fiction do you need? The Henry was actually uised in the Civil War and the Winchester model 1866 which ironed most of the kinks out of the Henry was brand new in 1866.

The fiction might be about the tactics. The US military doesn't seem to have realized the potential of magazine-fed rapid-fire rifles for many, many years. They wouldn't have issued all those trap-door Springfields if they had.
I dug out my copy of the novel and had a quick look into it. The guns are called Rodney-Rifles and described as straight-action (translation ? meaning ? don´t ask me.) 20 shot repeaters. They were invented in 1865 by a confederate gunsmith. The advertisement says they have a range of 2000 yard, but thats an advertisement. From what I read in High-Tech they are similiar, but more reliable and powerful than the Volcanic Rifle.

The main reason the author used a fictional gun was probably that he used the inventors backstory.
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Old 03-05-2012, 05:31 AM   #60
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Default Re: [IW] Non-Nazi Germany-Dominant World?

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described as straight-action (translation ? meaning ? don´t ask me.)
I would guess a straight-pull bolt action, but 1866 is (AFAIK) a very early alternate history appearance.
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