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Old 09-12-2019, 04:26 PM   #21
Helborn
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Default Re: Roll to miss variants

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Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
If you don't see problems with the original rule, more power to you - enjoy.

But it sounds to me like you just don't understand the situation or the solution GURPS and my adapted version of it provide. These rules do not remove the disincentives to shoot through other figures, at all. They just remove the logic and math errors from the calculations.

In fact, the adjusted rules make it a bit more difficult to hit enemies blocked by other enemies, which I think is a good thing. With the TFT rule, if an enemy wizard is behind two screening enemies, an archer can still hit them by making two rolls to miss and then an unmodified roll to hit, which with a decent DX is not that hard unless you happen to roll high on a to-miss roll, in which case the gamey "but you never accidentally hurt foes" comes in.
Skarg. I do understand what you are attempting but rolling a hit against a more distant figure and only rolling to miss a closer figure IF you miss the more distant figure is less logical.

Yes, you can put all of it into one roll as GURPS does but requiring a to miss roll for occupied hexes is better drama and certainly a reflection of the actual flow of an attack.
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Old 09-13-2019, 05:21 PM   #22
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Roll to miss variants

It may not do the die rolls in the order they happen in the gameworld, but the logical probability makes complete sense - the intervening figures are cover for the target, so they provide a logically consistent difficulty to hit the target. It's logical that a miss of the target means the intervening figures might have been hit, and determining that later doesn't affect the logical accuracy of the odds.

The TFT system meanwhile does not provide logical chances for things to happen, and even makes things impossible that should be a possible outcome (i.e. hitting the wrong enemy) and makes some accidental serious outcomes more likely than they could ever be even if done intentionally (double and triple damage results on friends).
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:29 AM   #23
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Default Re: Roll to miss variants

ITL 105: "The same goes for casting of spells and attempts to miss an invisible figure."

I missed a man who wasn't there.
He wasn't there again in the next hex over.
Oh why do my missile shots scatter in thin air?


I really can't think of a better case of rolling to miss being a flat DX zero roll to hit. You can try and target a nearby invisible figure if you guess the right hex. Otherwise it's a random shot with only a random chance to hit.
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Old 10-03-2019, 06:44 AM   #24
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Default Re: Roll to miss variants

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I missed a man who wasn't there.
Poetry! :)
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Old 10-05-2019, 11:33 AM   #25
JimmyPlenty
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Roll to miss variants

How about just increasing critical misses by 2 for every extra person in the way? If a critical occurs, randomly roll to see who gets stuck?

The chances of critical fails overlap the adjDX if need be.

If, on the odd chance, that you have an overlap, but still want a chance for the shot to simply fail, add a "total miss" result when randomly rolling to see who gets hit.

Last edited by JimmyPlenty; 10-10-2019 at 03:08 AM. Reason: changed "for each person you don't want to hit" to "every extra person in the way"
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Old 10-10-2019, 01:23 AM   #26
Skarg
 
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Default Re: Roll to miss variants

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How about just increasing critical misses by 2 for every extra person you don't want to hit in the way? If a critical occurs, randomly roll to see who gets stuck?

The chances of critical fails overlap the adjDX if need be.

If, on the odd chance, that you have an overlap, but still want a chance for the shot to simply fail, add a "total miss" result when randomly rolling to see who gets hit.
Why should the chance of critical misses (drop/break weapon?) increase due to what is essentially intervening cover between the firer and target?
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Old 10-10-2019, 02:58 AM   #27
JimmyPlenty
 
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Default Re: Roll to miss variants

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Why should the chance of critical misses (drop/break weapon?) increase due to what is essentially intervening cover between the firer and target?
It wouldn't. Keep those chances as normal. (17 & 18).
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:31 AM   #28
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Default Re: Roll to miss variants

In my DX zero "roll to miss/hit", I'd keep the rule that drop and break weapon after the first target apply only to the missile and not the missile weapon.
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Old 10-17-2019, 11:29 AM   #29
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Default Re: Roll to miss variants

Note in RAW that a highly agile archer is three times as likely to hit a friend than a blind archer is.
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Old 10-17-2019, 10:30 PM   #30
Skarg
 
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Note in RAW that a highly agile archer is three times as likely to hit a friend than a blind archer is.
And that's just one of the many weirdnesses.
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