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Old 02-13-2018, 02:46 PM   #141
DanHoward
 
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Default Re: Ceramics and Ceramic Composites as Material for Articulated Plate Harness

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
In light of this new information, you will be pestered relentlessly until agreeing to write one or more of GURPS Hot Spots: American Civil War, GURPS Hot Spots: Go West! Frontier Adventure 1820-1890, GURPS Loadouts: Cowboys and Indians or GURPS Loadouts: From Bushwhackers and Jayhawkers to Johnnie Reb and Billy Yank. :-)
Yep. Hey, Shawn! Consider yourself doubly pestered :)

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What modern manufacturing method would yield similar results as forging a particular piece of armour, but be much easier and faster?
Replacing manual tools with power tools will yield a traditional result with less time and strain for the smith. The first two would be power hammers and shears. Others might include angle grinder; bench drill; grinding/polishing wheels; hydraulic press; a Dremel for the finer work, etc. For best results, the smith would have to be trained in traditional methods and traditional tools before switching to modern equipment.
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Last edited by DanHoward; 02-13-2018 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 02-13-2018, 03:39 PM   #142
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Default Re: Ceramics and Ceramic Composites as Material for Articulated Plate Harness

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Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
Replacing manual tools with power tools will yield a traditional result with less time and strain for the smith. The first two would be power hammers and shears. Others might include angle grinder; bench drill; grinding/polishing wheels; hydraulic press; a Dremel for the finer work, etc.
Thanks!

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Originally Posted by DanHoward View Post
For best results, the smith would have to be trained in traditional methods and traditional tools before switching to modern equipment.
You mean like Vyacheslav Lunov of Mariupol, armourer and Historical Medieval Battle (HMB) fighter, who spent his teen years and early twenties working in an Ukrainian workshop making HEMA/HMB/SCA and reenaction armour, before moving to Mexico to work with his most important client to make his dream armour?

Vyacheslav is working with Carlos 'Caló' Renteria, a mechanical engineer with prior experience in automotive factories and at the time he met Vyacheslav, Caló had added some four years of experience in setting up and managing a chain of custom workshops, mechanic garages and gas stations which both served as cover businesses, maintained the fleet of vehicles used by the cartel and, for a couple of secret locations which were occasionally moved, served as worshops for extensively modifying trucks and other automobiles, for example to serve as light armoured vehicles in cartel wars or to have certain segments rebuilt with hidden compartments.

He's also working with a so far unnamed* Texan who is a machinist-fabricator, originally trained in the US military (Army, Reserve or National Guard, where he was a 44E and worked in the Mobile Parts Hospital in Kuwait), but with his own shop for some years after that. He was an unlicensed gunsmith (dishonorable discharge and minor record), gimmicky custom knife-maker and both designer and manufacturer of an endless number of metallic 'art' objects mostly sold at gunshows, like novelty belt buckles, spurs, car decorations, etc.

Is there any educational, vocational or work experience background that is not represented with these three and would be vitally important for the trial-and-error process of creating Vargas' dream armour by figuring out how to work the hardest, toughest steel alloys practical into a plate harness?

Who else would you suggest as part of the team, either as a consultant they can call or, if necessary, as another full time live-in expert?

As noted earlier, they have access to as many semi-professional to fairly skilled professional machinists, welders and mechanics as they think they need and that many of those will have picked up a few points in Armoury (Vehicle Armour)/TL8 through four years of doing such work. So there will be enough assistants to do simple tasks, if these are needed.

I'm talking about fields of knowledge or experience, GURPS skills or real-world fields, that should be present if you want a chance of success at designing and building very fine TL8 plate harness, but aren't.

*Any interested party, shout out if you'd like him. Claim him, name him and detain... er, detail him.
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Old 02-14-2018, 04:52 AM   #143
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Default Ballistic Brigandine

Simple Ballistic Torso Protection

Balllistic Brigandine, First Generation
Chest (9-10) Brigandine
5.25 sf
Front only 3/6** AR500 steel alloy 0.8 sf; DR 36/24†; WM 0.28; CM $12.5; Construction Solid. Weight 8 lbs.; Cost $200
Rear and Front 3/6 'Hard Steel' 4.45 sf; DR 10; WM 0.5; CM $3.5; Construction: Overlapping Plates; Stylish +3 CF. Weight 22.25lbs. Cost $934.5
Cloth 7 sf; DR 0* [0.25]; WM 0.85; CM $6; Construction: Optimised Fabric; Stylish +3 CF. Weight 1.19; Cost $57.12
DR 36/24† (3/6F**) or DR 10 (R and 3/6F)
Cost: $1,200; Weight: 31.45 lbs.

One of the simplest ballistic body armours made from TL8 steel alloys in the vague style of medieval armour. It basically consists of a single trauma plate of AR500 steel alloy over the upper chest, surrounded with somewhat softer steel plates to allow greater coverage, in a design of overlapping plates much like historical brigandines. Most of the plates are around 3 mm thick, though the trauma plate is 6.6 mm (1/4"). Targeting Chinks in armour can be done at -2 less penalty and aiming at the weaker steel is done at the normal Gaps rules.

The outer cloth layer is a period-accurate replica of the outer cloth layers of historical brigandines. Despite the Stylish pricing for two parts of the armour out of three, the end result is anything but Stylish, with the front trauma plate roughly twice as thick as the overlapping plates of softer steel which surround it and, with its 10" x 12" gently curving outline, breaks up the fine lines which a Stylish historical brigandine ought to have.

This armour is designed to be worn over one of the arming doublets from post #76. As these are no thicker than historical arming doublets and the brigandine will be sized to fit the wearer with his chosen underlayer on, there is no DX penalty for armour layering in such a case. For HEMA/MMB/SCA fighting, the wearer will generally add a helmet, pauldrons, probably gorget, possibly a fauld and bevor and usually some limb protection. These may be regular SCA-legal gear or something more advanced.

As the armouring doublets are usually made of para-aramids, the combination will thus generally have a few extra points of ballistic protection. This gives very good protection for shots which hit the AR500 trauma plate in front, NIJ Level IIIA protection for the upper torso, decent spall protection and some protection from many typical 5.56x45mm and 7.62x39mm rounds, though not proof against them except at long range.

However, for better protection, wearing a TL8 ballistic vest under the armour gives very good results. This does result in a -1 DX, for the thickness of the material, but combined with the steel plates, it gives almost NIJ Level III protection over on the chest area and a high level of Level III+ where the high hardness steel trauma plate is located over the upper chest.

Final Cost and Weight rounded off.

TL --- Armour --- --- ---- Location --- ---- --- DR --- - Cost --- --- Weight --- Don
8 --- Brigandine --- --- --- --- Torso --- ---- --- 36/24† --- $1,200 --- 31.45 lbs. --- 15
---- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Chest(F; 3/6**))--- 12/3†
---- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Chest(R)&(F) 3/6) --- 10
---- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Abdomen --- --- --- --- 0

---

Balllistic Brigandine
Chest (9-10) Brigandine
5.25 sf
4/6** 'Flash 500' steel alloy 3.5 sf; DR 18/12†; WM 0.3; CM $20; Construction Overlapping Plates; Stylish +3 CF. Weight 18.9 lbs.; Cost $4,536
2/6 'Hard Steel' 1.75 sf; DR 10; WM 0.5; CM $3.5; Construction: Overlapping Plates; Stylish +3 CF. Weight 8.75 lbs. Cost $245
Cloth 7 sf; DR 0* [0.25]; WM 0.85; CM $6; Construction: Optimised Fabric; Stylish +3 CF. Weight 1.19; Cost $57.12
DR 18/12† (4/6**) or DR 10 (2/6)
Cost: $4,840; Weight 28.8 lbs.

A fairly simple, if effective, ballistic body armour made from TL8 steel alloys. It basically consists of multiple small plates of Flash 500 steel alloy, gently curved or straight as appropriate, interlaced with somewhat softer steel to allow greater coverage, in a design of overlapping plates much like historical brigandines. Most of the plates are around 3 mm thick.

The outer cloth layer is a period-accurate replica of the outer cloth layers of historical brigandines. The Stylish cost modifier for the plates that are not even visible is for the difficulty of working the high hardness steel and the considerable pains that were taken to encase the stiff plates entirely in overlapping plates of softer steel capable of more form-fitting curves, so as to match the overall appearance of historical brigandines. It would be possible to get similar protection, if less stylish, but this should probably also reduce the penalty for targeting chinks in the armour.

This armour is designed to be worn over one of the arming doublets from post #76. As these are no thicker than historical arming doublets and the brigandine will be sized to fit the wearer with his chosen underlayer on, there is no DX penalty for armour layering in such a case. For HEMA/MMB/SCA fighting, wearer will generally add a helmet, pauldrons, probably gorget, possibly a fauld and bevor and usually some limb protection. These may be regular SCA-legal gear or something more advanced.

As the armouring doublets are usually made of para-aramids, the combination will thus generally have a few extra points of ballistic protection. While the protection is not perfect, the Caballero Templarios have found that the armour will indeed stop most AK and AR rounds that hit the harder plates, which protect the vitals and most of the areas at highest risk. And it gives NIJ Level IIIA over the entire chest area, front, back and sides.

However, for better protection, wearing a TL8 ballistic vest under the armour gives very good results. This does result in a -1 DX, for the thickness of the material, but combined with the steel plates, it gives genuine NIJ Level III protection over about the same area of the torso as military-issue trauma plates cover.

Final Cost and Weight rounded off.

TL --- Armour --- --- ---- Location --- ---- --- DR --- - Cost --- --- Weight --- Don
8 --- Brigandine --- --- --- --- Torso --- ---- --- 18/12† --- $4,840 --- 28.8 lbs. --- 15
---- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Chest(4/6**))--- - 18/12†
---- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Chest(2/6) --- --- - 10
---- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Abdomen --- --- --- 0*

---

Note that either or both of these might incorporate an outer spall liner under the cloth, adding 0.5-5.5 lbs. I haven't added it, as I haven't decided what material would be most appropriate. They can easily get kevlar and a range of economic or home-made solutions, but I think that such materials as Improved Kevlar, Ballistic Polymer, Laminated Polycarbonate or Polymer Composite may be subject to considerably more scrutiny, proprietory manufacture and even official regulation, in some cases. There are many cheaper spall linings available, but I haven't yet investigated which ones would be best for the CT cartel, considering their logistics and particular needs.

†Split DR, use higher DR only against piercing and cutting attacks. Use the lower DR for all other attacks.
*Flexible.
**Always protects the Vitals in the Chest.
***As anything that counts as Improved Kevlar is almost certainly proprietory and trademarked, getting a supply of such materials to have their maquiladora seastresses custom-tailor is probably going to be more difficult than with older para-aramids. I've added an arbitrary +1 CF, not as much as full Stylish, to represent this. Depending on advice, I may increase it.
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:01 AM   #144
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Default Tactical Ballistic Underlayer for Rigid Armour

Tactical Vest Underlayer

Ballistic Gambeson, 'Maquiladora'
Torso (9-11) Kevlar Underlayer
Front Chest (9-10) 2.625 sf; DR 12/3†; WM 0.1; CM $80; Construction Optimised Fabric. Weight: 2.52 lbs.; Cost $403.2
Rear Chest (9-10) 2.625 sf; DR 9/2†; WM 0.1; CM $80; Construction Optimised Fabric. Weight: 1.89 lbs.; Cost $302.4
Abdomen (11) 1.75 sf; DR 8/2†; WM 0.1; CM $80; Construction Optimised Fabric. Weight: 1.12 lbs.; Cost 179.2
DR 12/3† (Chest F); DR 9/2† (Chest R); DR 8/2*† (Abdomen)
Cost: $885; Weight 5.53 lbs.

This is a ballistic vest with flexible abdomen coverage, designed through trial-and-error lessons which were incorporated into a computer design program and then sewed from kevlar by maquiladora workers in the service of the CT cartel. It's designed to be worn over one of the underlayers from post #76. On its own, this does not rise to the thickness of -1 DX penalty, especially as the layers are designed to go together, but if a rigid armour is layered over the chest area, as it usually is, it will be enough to cause a -1 DX armour layering penalty.

Final Cost and Weight rounded off.

TL --- Armour --- --- ---- Location --- ---- DR --- - Cost --- Weight --- Don
8 --- Gambeson --- --- --- --- Torso --- ---- 12/3† --- $885 --- 5.53 lbs. --- 3
---- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Chest(F) --- --- 12/3†
---- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Chest(R) --- --- 9/2†
---- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Abdomen --- --- 8/2*†

---

Ballistic Gambeson
Torso (9-11) Improved Kevlar Underlayer
Front Chest (9-10) 2.625 sf; DR 12/4†; WM 0.08; CM $120; Construction Optimised Fabric; Stylish (+1 CF)***. Weight: 2.016 lbs.; Cost $967.68
Rear Chest (9-10) 2.625 sf; DR 10/3†; WM 0.08; CM $120; Construction Optimised Fabric; Stylish (+1 CF)***. Weight: 1.68 lbs.; Cost $806.4
Abdomen (11) 1.75 sf; DR 10/3†; WM 0.08; CM $120; Construction Optimised Fabric; Stylish (+1 CF)***. Weight: 1.12 lbs.; Cost $537.6
DR 12/4† (Chest F); DR 10/3*† (Chest R); DR 10/3*† (Abdomen)
Cost: $2,315; Weight 4.8 lbs.

This is a ballistic vest with flexible abdomen coverage, designed through trial-and-error lessons which were incorporated into a computer design program. The ballistic panels were ordered custom made to these specifications and measurements from a manufacturer in China, made out of an advanced para-aramid material, and are then sewed into the carrier by maquiladora ladies working from a model made with CAD.

The vest is designed to be worn over one of the underlayers from post #76. On its own, this does not rise to the thickness of -1 DX penalty, especially as the layers are designed to go together, but if a rigid armour is layered over the chest area, as it usually is, it will be enough to cause a -1 DX armour layering penalty.

Final Cost and Weight rounded off.

TL --- Armour --- --- ---- Location --- ---- DR --- - Cost --- Weight --- Don
8 --- Gambeson --- --- --- --- Torso --- ---- 12/4† --- $2,315 --- 4.8 lbs. --- 3
---- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Chest(F) --- --- 12/4†
---- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Chest(R) --- --- 10/3*†
---- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Abdomen --- --- 10/3*†
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Last edited by Icelander; 02-14-2018 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:06 AM   #145
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Default Re: Ceramics and Ceramic Composites as Material for Articulated Plate Harness

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What kind of professionals would have Blacksmith/TL8 in the modern world?
Blacksmiths.

Seriously, we still have professional blacksmiths, some choose to use traditional equipment, many in America make use of anywhere between TL 6 and TL 8 equipment, depending on taste and money. Some parts of the country have sufficiently established maker culture that there are shared workshops you can access with the TL8 equipment, so you don't have to buy it all yourself.

They make knives and swords, wrought iron fixtures, decorative pieces, they still bleed over into farrier and shoe horses and do general foot care... they no longer are expected to make everything that is made out of metal, however.

There are also part-time blacksmiths, that add income from knives or from wrought iron work to other income, or who augment their other work (as an artist, frex) with blacksmithing. These are less likely to have the TL 8 equipment themselves, but can still make use of shared maker-spaces.

There are also dedicated hobby smiths, who might have the fancy equipment because if you can buy fancy cars as a hobby, you can buy a set of industrial equipment as a hobby.
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Old 02-14-2018, 07:15 AM   #146
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Default Re: Ceramics and Ceramic Composites as Material for Articulated Plate Harness

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Blacksmiths.
Indeed.

What about anyone else?

What skill do you give welders*?

Steelworkers?

Most of the workers at a shipyard?

The foreman**, shift manager** or other specialist who must always be present when the machines, in a foundry, steelworking plant or other place making something out of steel, are operating?

If a Professional Skill in all cases, what defaults do those professional skills give?

*Who might also improve a Welding technique above that base skill, but they still need a base skill.
**Yes, they'll also have basic Administration and/or Leadership, but I'm talking about the skill they need to know how to set the machines for various tasks, make adjustments, know what to do and not to do, how to react to damage to the machines, etc. Basically, a guy who understands the machines well enough to change temperature settings and set the machines for different grades of end product.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
Seriously, we still have professional blacksmiths, some choose to use traditional equipment, many in America make use of anywhere between TL 6 and TL 8 equipment, depending on taste and money. Some parts of the country have sufficiently established maker culture that there are shared workshops you can access with the TL8 equipment, so you don't have to buy it all yourself.

They make knives and swords, wrought iron fixtures, decorative pieces, they still bleed over into farrier and shoe horses and do general foot care... they no longer are expected to make everything that is made out of metal, however.

There are also part-time blacksmiths, that add income from knives or from wrought iron work to other income, or who augment their other work (as an artist, frex) with blacksmithing. These are less likely to have the TL 8 equipment themselves, but can still make use of shared maker-spaces.

There are also dedicated hobby smiths, who might have the fancy equipment because if you can buy fancy cars as a hobby, you can buy a set of industrial equipment as a hobby.
Yeah, one of the team trying to make 'Black Knight/Templar' armour out of advanced steels to provide a measure of protection from firearms is, indeed, a part-time and hobby smith, aside from his profession of machinist-fabricator. That would be the as-yet-unnamed Texan.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:26 AM   #147
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Default Top-of-the-line Custom Underlayer

Miguel Caballero Arming Suit
Torso (9-11), Arms (8,12) and Legs (6-7,13-14) Ballistic Polymer Underarmor
Doublet:
Torso (9-11) and Arms (8,12) 10.5 sf; DR 4/2*†; WM 0.06; CM $200; Fabric; Stylish (+19 CF). Weight: 2.52 lbs.; Cost $10,080
Torso (9-11) 7 sf; DR 8/3*†; WM 0.06; CM $200; Optimised Fabric; Stylish (+19 CF). Weight: 1.34 lbs.; Cost $10,752
Arms (11) 3.5 sf; DR 2/1*†; WM 0.06; CM $200; Optimised Fabric; Stylish (+19 CF). Weight: 0.336 lbs.; Cost $2,688
Torso (9-11) and Arms (8,12) Nylon** 10.5 sf; DR 0 [0.25]; CW 0.5; CM $6; Optimised Fabric, Stylish (+19 CF), Undercover Clothing (+19 CF) = 1.05 lbs.; $478.8.
Weight: 5.246 lbs.; Cost: $23,998.8
Breeches:
Legs (6-7,13-14) 7 sf; DR 4/2*†; WM 0.06; CM $200; Fabric; Stylish (+19 CF). Weight: 1.68 lbs.; Cost $6,720
Legs (6-7,13-14) 7 sf; DR 2/1*†; WM 0.06; CM $200; Optimised Fabric; Stylish (+19 CF). Weight: 0.672 lbs.; Cost $5,376
Legs (6-7,13-14) Nylon** 7 sf; DR 0* [0.25]; CW 0.5; CM $6; Optimised Fabric, Stylish (+19 CF), Undercover Clothing (+19 CF) = 0.7 lbs.; $327.6.
Weight: 3.052 lbs.; Cost: $12,423.6
DR 12/5*† (Torso); DR 6/3*† (Limbs).
Cost: $36,321.6; Weight 4.8 lbs.

The finest custom-made protection available, this underlayer consists of an 'arming doublet' and 'arming breeches' made out of ballistic polymer and an outer layer of modern synthetics designed to appear identical to black quilted cloth.

A thin layer of ballistic polymer covers the entire body, meaning that even attacks to the insides of joints, or other hard to armour areas that usually count as Chinks in Armour, have to content with a minimum of DR 4/2*†. There are no significant gaps in the protection of this underlayer.

It is designed to be worn under some other form of armour, which will give increased ballistic protection to selected areas. Assuming that the outer armour is designed to go over this undersuit, this will not cause any penalty for armour layering.

Note that this custom-made body suit would have the exact same cost and function if it were designed to appear as a fashionable gentleman's suit or any other garments that cover the whole body, with thin clothing over the limbs and ordinary clothing over the torso. In that case, however, it is unlikely that it would be designed as an underlayer of armour, which means that layering armour over it would cause an armour layering penalty. It would, of course, be theoretically possible to design a suit jacket with fastenings for trauma plates or something similar, which would allow layering with purpose-designed plates without penalty, as long as the plates were tailored to fit and not inconveniently bulky. Whether disguised as a TL8 suit or TL4 arming garments, the outfit grants a +2 quality bonus to Holdout to conceal that it is armour.

Also, as long as you had an established relationship with the company and wanted maybe a half dozen, I'm pretty sure you could get them to sell you suits with identical stats, but counting only as Stylish x5 for about $10,000 per full suit. These are still very fashionable in cut and outer materials, but would not be as perfectly designed to match the contours and motion of HEMA/SCA/HMB quilted cloth padding (or whatever other clothing you wanted to mimic). They'd be more easily recognisable as armour, for only a +1 (quality) Holdout bonus, and their Styling reaction bonus would be +3 and not +4.

Final Cost and Weight rounded off.

TL --- Armour --- --- ---- Location --- ---- DR --- - Cost --- Weight --- Don
8 --- Arming Doublet --- --- Torso --- ---- 12/5*† --- $24,000 --- 5.25 lbs. --- 9
---- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Arms --- --- --- 6/3*†
8 --- Arming Breeches --- -- Legs --- --- --- 6/3*† --- $12,500 --- 3 lbs. --- --- 12

†Split DR, use higher DR only against piercing and cutting attacks. Use the lower DR for all other attacks.
*Flexible.
**Really a placeholder for a generic TL8 clothing material that can be made to appear like quilted cloth when placed over ballistic material, but more lightweight than cloth actually designed to give significant protection.
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Old 02-14-2018, 08:27 AM   #148
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Default Re: Ceramics and Ceramic Composites as Material for Articulated Plate Harness

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Originally Posted by Icelander View Post
What skill do you give welders*?

Steelworkers?

Most of the workers at a shipyard?

The foreman**, shift manager** or other specialist who must always be present when the machines, in a foundry, steelworking plant or other place making something out of steel, are operating?

If a Professional Skill in all cases, what defaults do those professional skills give?
I think you can make the case that at TL6+, welding is a specialization of Blacksmith (Iron). There are some steelworkers who are just capable of of patching a seam on a ship, but generalist welders treat metal the same way that carpenters treat wood: as a material that can be reshaped and reconfigured as needed*. It might also be a specialization of Machinist.

I would probably treat steel working (general construction or within a shipyard) the same way, or as a variant of the Carpentry or Masonry skills. Actually, Carpentry and Masonry should probably be merged into a general Construction skill, specialized by material, with wood, stone, plastic, and steel being common choices, just like copper, iron, and lead/tin are common specialties of Smith.

Steel making is probably a professional skill, with a default to and from Metallurgy of -5 or so. Or again, a specialization of Smith (Iron).

* Jamie Zawinski has a story of when he hired some welders to do work on his bar, and they needed a sawhorse for some reason. So they grabbed some loose struts and welded one together, just like a carpenter would have nailed one together from two-by-fours.
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:07 AM   #149
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Default Armour and Shooting, Face Masks and Cheek Weld

It is a well known problem with any design of modern armour that covers the face that it will interfere with getting a good cheek weld.

The most popular options at late TL8 are: a) Not wearing protection for the Face hit location (most popular outside very specialised applications); b) Wearing some form of ballistic visor and use another method of aiming and controlling the weapon (any alternative firing method of which I'm aware will be iless accurate at any ranges beyond CQC than a good cheek weld); and c) Ballistic masks and other face protection that purports not to interfere with cheek weld.

GURPS Tactical Shooting imposes some severe penalties to shooting without a cheek weld. Training and equipment, e.g. holographic weapon sights, can ameliorate this to some extent.

Does anyone know if there are good technical solutions commercially available now that would reduce the penalties from shooting with facial armour?

What kind of armoured face mask design might give a bonus to Masked Shooting compared to dive masks or gas masks?

How thick can a face mask designed to shoot with be?

Gauntlets are another issue. Obviously, any kind of metal gauntlets that cover the fingers would give penalties to accurate shooting. The design we should be looking at, according to Polydamas, are gauntlets that cover the back of the hand, but not the fingers (and probably not the palm either).

Does anyone have pictures of gauntlets that are fairly protective for much of the hand, without covering the fingers?

What kind of coverage of the hand should I aim for? 1-3 in 1d? 1-4?

How thick is the steel in gauntlets that would not give Bad Grip or other penalties to the use of the hand, beyond maybe a -1 to very fine manual dexterity tasks where it got in the way (but not including shooting and wielding a sword)?

Of course, regardless of whether this is due to facial protection or another issue, any kind of armour that prevents getting a good sight picture makes firearms almost useless. It is vital that the armour Vargas and his men wear will at least allow shouldering longarms and aiming them. If the armour will not allow a traditional cheek weld, it still needs to offer a stable position to fire from the shoulder and obtain a sight picture somehow.

If this requires those who want to go into battle wearing archaic-looking, but badass, armour to carry only weapons with holographic weapon sights, this is acceptable to them.

What do I need to keep in mind when designing field plate harness that will be used for TL8 tactical shooting as well as TL4 live steel fighting?

What kind of gorget, bevor or other neck protection can I use? How thick can a gorget be without causing a penalty to skills important to TL8 shootists?

By contrast, what kind of neck protection must I avoid at all costs?

How about pauldrons? Obviously, they'll need to be designed with this issue in mind, but what does that mean?

How thick can they be made (or how much DR if they were made of GURPS-Low tech steel, if that's easier to visualise)?

Does anyone have pictures of armour that looks medieval-esque, but would not give penalties to shooting?

How about pitfalls to avoid? Does anyone have pictures of armour that would certainly give penalties to Sighted Shooting and Aimed Shooting?
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Old 02-14-2018, 10:25 AM   #150
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Default Do Blacksmith and Machinist exist side by side in TL8 industry?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlangsdorf View Post
I think you can make the case that at TL6+, welding is a specialization of Blacksmith (Iron). There are some steelworkers who are just capable of of patching a seam on a ship, but generalist welders treat metal the same way that carpenters treat wood: as a material that can be reshaped and reconfigured as needed*.
This would be my instinct, yes. Based on people who do work that requires them to weld a lot, most of them seem to be able to build stuff out of metals much like a carpenter does out of wood. Furniture, decorations, improvised and ultra-simple car parts (like a piece of metal that fixes a hole in a rusty car), etc.

I think that this might be reflected by a modest skill level in Blacksmith/TL8 and a higher level of the Welding technique (Average), defaulting to Blacksmith at full skill and able to be raised to at least skill+4, if not unlimited.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlangsdorf View Post
It might also be a specialization of Machinist.
That was the other option, yes. Certainly, someone with Machinist can weld. The Welding technique should default to Machinist at either full skill (if Blacksmith is no longer used in TL8 industrial applications) or no more than -2 penalty (if there some of the steelworking industry is Blacksmith/TL8).

Either Machinist does everything at TL6+ that Blacksmith did at TL5 or lower, with Blacksmith TL6+ being relegated to hobbyists and people who make a living by being better than hobbyists at doing the same thing, or Blacksmith and Machinist both exist at TL8, covering different trades.

If they are separate skills that are still both common, even in heavily automated fields, then I'd not necessarily expect a welder to have any background in Machinist. A machinist might certainly have improved his Welding technique from the -2 default and be as good as it as a Blacksmith of the same skill (or better), but I don't think he has to be. Not every expert machinist-fabricator is going to work with tools that rely on heat to shape or cut metals to the same degree.

If one worker at a factory which makes things from steel never uses the CNC machines or other iconic Machninist equipment, but instead mostly works with hot metals, from welding on upwards to industrial equipment that mimics what forges do, then I would expect him to Blacksmith/TL8, assuming this still exists as a skill within heavy industry.

If you just want to learn to be good at welding, you'd start with an Optional Specialisation of Blacksmith (Iron) and improve the Welding technique from that.

Which option sounds better; Machinist replacing Blacksmith in all industrial applications or Blacksmith/TL8 simply looking a lot different than the skill at earlier TLs, but still common in industry independently of Machinist?
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