What GURPS needs... now

[Ronnke]

Originally Posted by trooper6

What I think GURPS needs now is not a new version of GURPS Lite, but less grognardism in the fan base and more visibility. I think a cool Twitch streamed game with fun players and a fun GM that could show that GURPS is elegant, fun, deep, and interesting...*that* is one of the things that GURPS needs to attract new people.

GURPS is fine, as is, it just needs exposure from both fans and SJG.

For what it's worth, our group has started to stream live GURPS games on Twitch, in an effort to increase the GURPS footprint. It's still very much in its infancy, but we're working on production quality and ways to make things more interesting. Hopefully we will get to the point where we have a good show going.

Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/theronnke
YouTube archives: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCog...foShOVyXMbQugA

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

I could see the opposite being much more useful: something that ramps up the cinematic, and really pares down the mundane. Most of the players I've encountered don't want to play Papers and Paychecks, they want to do something amazing.

That's a false dilemma. For example, I played in a game that had absolutely no magic, no exotic abilities, no cinematic whiz bang of most any kind, but I don't think many people would call brutally realistic* medieval warfare "Papers and Paychecks."

* Some might say disturbingly realistic. One combat devolved into grappling, and ended when one fighter got his hand under the other's visor. And with no magic healing, eyes don't grow back.

Personally, my favored gaming style falls somewhere in the middle of all that, at what I would describe as optimistic heroism with a fair touch of grit.

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

And I'm of a mixed mind about identical weapons. But, he's probably right about that as well.

I could see a lot of it being trimmed down with liberal use of the phrases "Use the same stats for X, Y, or Z" and "For an extra $A, add a B that enables C."

[trooper6]

Originally Posted by Ronnke

GURPS is fine, as is, it just needs exposure from both fans and SJG.

For what it's worth, our group has started to stream live GURPS games on Twitch, in an effort to increase the GURPS footprint. It's still very much in its infancy, but we're working on production quality and ways to make things more interesting. Hopefully we will get to the point where we have a good show going.

Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/theronnke
YouTube archives: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCog...foShOVyXMbQugA

I just followed your stream. I'll check it out. I currently stream video games twice a week, but I'm planning on adding a GURPS stream...at least just a 2-3 session test to see if doing it longer term will be viable. I want players with webcams, because I want viewers to be able to see the faces of the GM and players. I'm going to work on it.

[Ronnke]

Originally Posted by trooper6

I'm planning on adding a GURPS stream...at least just a 2-3 session test to see if doing it longer term will be viable.

Why wouldn't it be viable? Any GURPS is better than no GURPS.

[GM Joe]

Originally Posted by philosophyguy

1) A revised lite that incorporates magic and cleans up some of the detail in favor of generic task difficulty modifiers. This would help make GURPS more accessible, wouldn't require the huge time investment of rewriting an existing book, and wouldn't break backwards compatibility.

Being able to point people to a free version of GURPS that allows them to experience what it's like to use GURPS for the most popular RPG genre would be very helpful. The lack of magic in GURPS Lite 4e is unfortunate.

[A Ladder]

Originally Posted by GM Joe

Being able to point people to a free version of GURPS that allows them to experience what it's like to use GURPS for the most popular RPG genre would be very helpful. The lack of magic in GURPS Lite 4e is unfortunate.

I agree. Magic in Lite would've been great. However, just looking at what rules that are absolutely necessary for magic is actually a bunch of pages. Trimming all that down looks...daunting.

The big question: What spells do we give people? It's easy to drop the Gate, Necromancy, and Weather colleges. But what other colleges don't make the cut? Maybe Earth, Knowledge, and Meta? What spells don't make it? In theory drop Earth to Air, No-Smell, Predict Weather, Deathtouch, Wither Limb, Cold, Heat, Resist Cold, Resist Fire, Great Healing, Major Healing, Aura, Seeker, Trace, Mass Daze, Mass Sleep, Great Haste, Fog, and Shape Water....ugh, that leaves a ton and takes out some great magic-y things to do.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by A Ladder

I agree. Magic in Lite would've been great. However, just looking at what rules that are absolutely necessary for magic is actually a bunch of pages. Trimming all that down looks...daunting.

The big question: What spells do we give people? It's easy to drop the Gate, Necromancy, and Weather colleges. But what other colleges don't make the cut? Maybe Earth, Knowledge, and Meta? What spells don't make it? In theory drop Earth to Air, No-Smell, Predict Weather, Deathtouch, Wither Limb, Cold, Heat, Resist Cold, Resist Fire, Great Healing, Major Healing, Aura, Seeker, Trace, Mass Daze, Mass Sleep, Great Haste, Fog, and Shape Water....ugh, that leaves a ton and takes out some great magic-y things to do.

If I were going to write a Lite system that is supposed to primarily be playable, rather than be a sampler for the Basic Set, I would have just used Wildcards instead of regular skills and you could make a pretty good one page magic system that way.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by A Ladder

I agree. Magic in Lite would've been great. However, just looking at what rules that are absolutely necessary for magic is actually a bunch of pages. Trimming all that down looks...daunting.

The big question: What spells do we give people? It's easy to drop the Gate, Necromancy, and Weather colleges. But what other colleges don't make the cut? Maybe Earth, Knowledge, and Meta? What spells don't make it? In theory drop Earth to Air, No-Smell, Predict Weather, Deathtouch, Wither Limb, Cold, Heat, Resist Cold, Resist Fire, Great Healing, Major Healing, Aura, Seeker, Trace, Mass Daze, Mass Sleep, Great Haste, Fog, and Shape Water....ugh, that leaves a ton and takes out some great magic-y things to do.

Remember there's a 20-page chapter on magic in Characters.

I'm not really sure how to shorten that further for Lite, but it already prunes down from Magic to just 93 spells that fit into 11-12 pages.

[trooper6]

Originally Posted by Ronnke

Why wouldn't it be viable? Any GURPS is better than no GURPS.

For me, the things I need to work through are mostly technical. Can I work out technically how to get my game to look aesthetically pleasing for the audience? I'll be using Roll20, how is that going to work out for me? Will I find it fluid and comfortable? I'm doing a 2-3 session arena run because I want to test out all the tough stuff...mapping and movement and all that. One thing I'm especially interested in checking out is how drawing maps in the moment might work out because I'm pretty improvisational. Will drawing on the computer feel as fluid as drawing on my dry erase hex map? How I feel about the experience of doing this online will impact whether I think of this as viable. I also want to try out a few other systems online...what if I prefer those systems for online play than GURPS? I need to test out streaming to see if technically I like and can handle the experience.

Then there are the players. I need players who meet some requirements. I need someone who has a webcam and mic and is willing to be streamed and can meet at the time we can all meet. That is the basic. The Arena game also lets me see what the player plays like. I'm going to want people who are professional...but also match my GM style. I also would prefer to find people with good personality who will perform well on cam in order to better sell the game to viewers. If I can't find good players who meet those requirements, then it isn't viable yet.

I also would like to run the game on Fridays, but don't want to compete with another streamer I mod for. She doesn't currently stream on Fridays, but is planning on adding a Friday stream...so I want to see what time she'll be streaming.

So I'm going to do a quick short run to see how I feel about the experience and as a way to audition some players.

[Gollum]

Here are my two cents about this very interesting topic …

Dungeon Fantasy RolePlaying Game Boxed Set will help GURPS to be more well known and really liked. And I’m sure such tool boxes will be designed for Action and Monster Hunters series … If DFRPG is bought a lot and some GURPS authors have time and money to make them.

Waiting for that time, do we need another GURPS Lite, a more streamlined Basic Set, more hints about how to handle GURPS for each specific genre?

In my humble opinion, no.

GURPS Lite is already a very good tool and it is hard to do something better – that is, a book which shows GURPS in a so simple, easy to read and fully compatible with the Basic Set manner … How to be a GURPS GM already gives amazing hints about how GURPS works and which rules to use for your own campaign. And Dungeon Fantasy, Action and Monster Hunters series are precisely books which explain how to adapt GURPS to those specific genres. We even have Adaptation, which describes how to translate your favorite fictions in GURPS terms.

So, what does GURPS really need to attract new people? Simple. What does other universal roleplaying system (those who are best sellers) propose?

Game worlds and adventures! That is, really ready to play stuff.

Do you want to try the BRP system for instance? Simple. Download Call of Cthlhu Quick Start Rules and you’ve got all what you need to play immediately. Rules and a ready to play adventure to start with. Or, if you prefer fantasy, do it with Runequest Roleplaying in Glorantha Quick Start. Here again, everything is given without having the least preparation to do. You just have to read and you can play.

Of course, GURPS offers some adventures here or there. You can for instance download GURPS Lite and play it with Caravan to Ein Arris, for free. But, first, these two books are not clearly linked together. And second, what will happen when you will want to go on with the same Player Characters? The Game Master will have to write new adventures and to design the game world for himself. While with Call of Cthulhu or Runequest, you’ve got fully designed game worlds and a lot of ready to play adventures and campaigns.

This is what frightens newcomers, in my humble opinion. GURPS is a very good game … If you’ve got a lot of time to do everything by yourself. Sure, GURPS gives you all the rules you want (perhaps even much more than you would like to), and a lot of hints about how to use them. But you still have to do everything by yourself. And if you look at official supplements, they just give more rules and more hints about how to use them … But no really ready to play stuff. Even game worlds very rarely give you a ready to play adventure!

Brief, GURPS is a very good game for those who love building their own world, writing their own adventures, or adapting ones from another roleplaying game. Thus, it is a very good game for experienced Game Masters, but it cannot really attract newcomers who just would like to try it.

At least, not before the DFRPG and other projects like that will be published out. And more there will be projects like that, more newbies will be able to see and understand how things work (so amazingly) rather than having hundreds and hundreds of pages to read just to know what to use or not to use … to build almost everything by themselves.