Binding - Decreased ST over time.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Bruno

And the shackles are 0 points, and shackle-strength Binding is 40 points, so I'm pretty comfortable with that one.

I'm not going to argue the illogical ramifications of that comparison.

IMHO, Consistency and balance call for a finite duration.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

I'm not going to argue the illogical ramifications of that comparison.

Which?

DR and Innate Attack are as cheap as they are because they're competing directly with equipment, which doesn't cost points at all. Binding has the same problem.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Which?

DR and Innate Attack are as cheap as they are because they're competing directly with equipment, which doesn't cost points at all. Binding has the same problem.

And they operate in much the same manner as said equipment. They just don't need the physical tech. You still need to point and fire. A Bind takes a single attack maneuver, Handcuffs and shackles require grappling, helplessness or submission to apply, not a ranged attack roll. You could use a net comparison with more relevance, but escaping a net is allot easier than a bind you can't just shrug off, and Netting guns (or whatever you want to cobble for a TL8 Tangler) don't have the Ubiquity of other firearms (which is also a factor in the cost of IA)

But all this is moot. Most advantages can be simulated with technology. This isn't an exception, but the rule.

[stroess]

Hi,

Thanks for all the discussion. It really helped alot! I never realized that the default for powers without duration is 10 Seconds. I may actually use this as a base and then use Extended Duration from there. I also liked the idea of Dissipation to represent the weakening over time.

Thanks again for all the help!

Stroess

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by stroess

Hi,

Thanks for all the discussion. It really helped alot! I never realized that the default for powers without duration is 10 Seconds. I may actually use this as a base and then use Extended Duration from there. I also liked the idea of Dissipation to represent the weakening over time.

Thanks again for all the help!

Stroess

I won't claim that Technical Grappling will solve your problem (I didn't address this particular issue), but it will definitely give you some more tools with which to sculpt a solution!

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by stroess

Hi,

Thanks for all the discussion. It really helped alot! I never realized that the default for powers without duration is 10 Seconds. I may actually use this as a base and then use Extended Duration from there. I also liked the idea of Dissipation to represent the weakening over time.

Thanks again for all the help!

Stroess

My pleasure.

Bruno knows her stuff, so she's probably right about the permanence, despite how counter-intuitive it is to me. I do think it works better and makes more sense if it has a finite duration. oh well!

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

My pleasure.

Bruno knows her stuff, so she's probably right about the permanence, despite how counter-intuitive it is to me. I do think it works better and makes more sense if it has a finite duration. oh well!

It's probably up there with Alternate Form in the "... Huh." factor. I mean, AF doesn't have a duration either - and very definitely doesn't take the "default 10 seconds"*.

A finite duration is fine, I just think you should be careful of nerfing it into the ground compared to some of the alternatives.

TK is the closest and at only 5 points for 1 ST it has a huge feature set compared to unmodified Binding, which is quite restricted.
Or you could just zap them with a Fatigue Attack and take them right out of the fight, bypassing any risk of breaking free or being rescued.
The closest Affliction is Afflicting them with Sessile, which is... weird, but frankly I think Affliction is just overall weird and not a fabulous benchmark. But it roots him to the spot, which is an important feature of Bind, so worth mentioning.


* It really doesn't apply to much without also applying a modifier to the advantage. The box even specifically discusses it in the context of finding out what happens when a modifier gets applied creating a need for the otherwise-not-specified quality :P Otherwise, what things don't have a secret 10 second duration? How do you tell them appart from the things that do?

[BaHalus]

I think 10 seconds would make the special modifiers meaningless and most of binding description let me believe it is definitely not intended to wear off in ten seconds. Even as a house rule, I think you should think in the scale of minutes or hours.

[the_matrix_walker]

My house rule is in minutes, specifically because 10 seconds was too short.

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Bruno

It's probably up there with Alternate Form in the "... Huh." factor. I mean, AF doesn't have a duration either - and very definitely doesn't take the "default 10 seconds"*.

.....

* It really doesn't apply to much without also applying a modifier to the advantage. The box even specifically discusses it in the context of finding out what happens when a modifier gets applied creating a need for the otherwise-not-specified quality :P Otherwise, what things don't have a secret 10 second duration? How do you tell them appart from the things that do?

I am aware of the context, but it is mentioned as a for example. I agree it makes little sense to say that Duplication, Shape shifting, Shadow form, etc. has a duration of 10 seconds. However, the box says' "Exceptions will be Noted" despite there being no such notations that I am aware of under any of those abilities. So I usually just ignore that and let them last until they are turned off, just seems like common sense. But when players build indestructible Binds that then litter the streets with grappled corpses, I have a problem. Then them fading away seems to better satisfy my common sense.