Alternatives to the Throwing rules

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

I'd like something based on BL since I use LogST for my super heroes and the basic throwing rules . . . are lacking for the "low" ST values. So, going off of what Naloth had suggested.

Let's say Spidey with ST30 BL 2k is throwing a 2 ton car. If you put the BL-BLx3 as x1/2 BL, that would give him a range of 1000 yards. If you put the BL-BLx3 as x1/20 BL, that's still 100 yards. Back at ST10 BL 20, that throwing amount would be 20-60 lbs. A 10 yard (x1/2 BL) range seems rather generous, while a 1 yard (x1/20 BL) range seems much too short.

BL is great for determining the ratio or level of throwing relative to your ST for both the normal and log progression. It doesn't work well to multiply for distance, though.

[Anthony]

Realistically, there shouldn't be a ST multiplier at all -- just give a fixed range based on the ratio of object weight to BL (for log ST, don't use ratios at all, just use ST offsets -- i.e. a 10 lb object requires ST 7 to lift, so if you have ST 10 use the numbers for a difference of +3).

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Realistically, there shouldn't be a ST multiplier at all -- just give a fixed range based on the ratio of object weight to BL (for log ST, don't use ratios at all, just use ST offsets -- i.e. a 10 lb object requires ST 7 to lift, so if you have ST 10 use the numbers for a difference of +3).

That would completely alter the throwing and ranged muscle powered weapon rules rather than just updating the throw table. There would need to be quite a few examples and I'm not sure if it would be more realistic.

I'd also be somewhat careful capping damage/range. If you can throw a bullet with the same force that a gun would launch it, shouldn't you get similar results?

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by naloth

That would completely alter the throwing and ranged muscle powered weapon rules rather than just updating the throw table.

Eh, the throwing and ranged muscle powered weapons are fixed weight weapon with variable ST. If you throw the same object with greater strength, it's going to go further, but the point is that ST 20 can throw 4x the weight for 2x the distance, and it should be 4x the weight for 1x the distance.

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by naloth

Let's say Spidey with ST30 BL 2k is throwing a 2 ton car. If you put the BL-BLx3 as x1/2 BL, that would give him a range of 1000 yards. If you put the BL-BLx3 as x1/20 BL, that's still 100 yards. Back at ST10 BL 20, that throwing amount would be 20-60 lbs. A 10 yard (x1/2 BL) range seems rather generous, while a 1 yard (x1/20 BL) range seems much too short.

BL is great for determining the ratio or level of throwing relative to your ST for both the normal and log progression. It doesn't work well to multiply for distance, though.

Yeah, mine was just a generic example.

I appreciate Anthony's issue, but the problem is that LogST really doesn't like to line up well. I'm still struggling to come up with useful throwing rules for LogST.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

Yeah, mine was just a generic example.

I appreciate Anthony's issue, but the problem is that LogST really doesn't like to line up well. I'm still struggling to come up with useful throwing rules for LogST.

Actually I've been using the regular throwing rules (but treating per die modifiers as flat bonuses) and my impression has been that it lines up much better than the regular rules. I prefer a Spidey that can toss a car across the street but can't toss one across a football field. Likewise, I'm good with the Thing "only" being able to toss a car a bit more than a football field. Players that wanted more damage and range invested in a few levels of Super Throw.

Perhaps it would be best to set various benchmarks (ST, weight, distance) and build various cinematic rules that accomplish that?

[Mark Skarr]

My main issue is that, under the basic rules, without LogST, If Spidey has a ST 100 (BL 2k), he can throw 4,000 lbs 30 yds. Hardly a foot-ball field. But, with using the LogST value, he can throw it just 9 yards. That's a pretty significant loss.

I'm looking for something that's closer to the original rules. I'm fine with them not lining up exactly, but I'm looking for something closer to the listed rules. Hence I was looking at using BL as a basis for the range instead of the ST value.

But, I've still been working on ideas.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

My main issue is that, under the basic rules, without LogST, If Spidey has a ST 100 (BL 2k), he can throw 4,000 lbs 30 yds. Hardly a foot-ball field. But, with using the LogST value, he can throw it just 9 yards. That's a pretty significant loss.

Sure, it's a shorter throw, but it's a distance that follows the source material more closely. Spidey shouldn't be hurling 2 ton objects 30 yards - even 9 might be a touch high.

Under SuperST rules Spidey is usually built with ST 29/90 [90+360] or ST30/120 [100+400] which is considerably more than (log) ST30 [200]. Super Throw 2 [20] multiples throwing range x4, and it doesn't add that much to the cost or complexity if you want a character that can throw much further than their ST would indicate.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

My main issue is that, under the basic rules, without LogST, If Spidey has a ST 100 (BL 2k), he can throw 4,000 lbs 30 yds. Hardly a foot-ball field. But, with using the LogST value, he can throw it just 9 yards. That's a pretty significant loss.

Spider throwing a 2 ton weight 30 yards is exactly equivalent to a normal person throwing a 40 lb object 30 yards. Which is, um, not likely. 3 yards (ignore ST, just use a flat 10 for throw distance) is better.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Spider throwing a 2 ton weight 30 yards is exactly equivalent to a normal person throwing a 40 lb object 30 yards. Which is, um, not likely. 3 yards (ignore ST, just use a flat 10 for throw distance) is better.

I understand better now... Use (ST) 10 as the throw multiplier for distance, which could be replaced entirely with flat ranges.

To pick a few samples from the chart:
BL/20 = 35 yards
BL/5 = 15 yds
BL/2 = 8 yds
BL = 6 yds
BL*2 = 3 yds
BL*5 = 1.2 yds
BL*8 = .8 yds

Further distances would require Super Throw? Throwing skill?

SM should factor in a bit if ST isn't. It seems odd that 2 giants wouldn't be able to throw as far as they can reach.