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Old 04-05-2017, 10:28 AM   #1
zobom
 
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Default [RPM] Definition of Subject, Stacked Spells

Hi, me and my group have a Medieval Fantasy campaing in course and one of the players is a RPM mage adept (in this case, me). There is a discussion about what is the definition of subject for stacking purposes, every time a similar spell is casted by the mage. We need enlightment in this matter...

The GM thinks that the same spell cannot be casted without stacking, example:

If the mage use Lesser Create Matter to make a sword, he cannot cast the same spell again for a Lesser Create Matter to make a shield... It need to be a single spell with the 2 combined sword/shield. In his comprehension the "Subject" in this case it's the own mage because is his magic.

The same applies to portals, you cannot have more than one active portal (Greater Create Crossroads), you need to cast both at the same ritual example:
Inside a house, the door to the right are linked to a mountain in Tibet and the door to the left a Caribbean beach...

In my understanding the Subject its the active magic itself.

If the mage cast Lesser Create Matter (Sword), he cannot cast a posterior magical effect involving the Sword (A DR enhancement for example) as the Subject would involve an active spell, in this case he should do in the same magic (Lesser Create Matter + Lesser Strenghten Matter)...

Another question is about stack of Summon Allies... If summoned an Ally Spirit (G-Cre-Spt) (Ally 50% stating points, summonable, etc etc etc) and i name him BLUE, he can summon another equal but named RED? As the Advantage Ally can be bought multiple times and isnt a leveled advantage?

Other thing... and this is a tough one... Can the path Energy be used to manipulate space/time as Crossroads? As the speed and gravity of objects can be changed with Energy, with sufficient amount of pressure you can compress space/time to a state that you are in the past/present/future altogether?


Thank you for your time!
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Old 04-05-2017, 10:48 AM   #2
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: [RPM] Definition of Subject, Stacked Spells

Quote:
Originally Posted by zobom View Post
Hi, me and my group have a Medieval Fantasy campaing in course and one of the players is a RPM mage adept (in this case, me). There is a discussion about what is the definition of subject for stacking purposes, every time a similar spell is casted by the mage. We need enlightment in this matter...

The GM thinks that the same spell cannot be casted without stacking, example:
I'm going to go item by item here.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zobom View Post
If the mage use Lesser Create Matter to make a sword, he cannot cast the same spell again for a Lesser Create Matter to make a shield... It need to be a single spell with the 2 combined sword/shield. In his comprehension the "Subject" in this case it's the own mage because is his magic.
Yes, he can. Because the subject is different - he's creating a sword and a shield. Actually, in this case there is no real subject.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zobom View Post
The same applies to portals, you cannot have more than one active portal (Greater Create Crossroads), you need to cast both at the same ritual example:
Inside a house, the door to the right are linked to a mountain in Tibet and the door to the left a Caribbean beach...
No. You can have as many portals active as you want as long as you make your rolls.

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Originally Posted by zobom View Post
In my understanding the Subject its the active magic itself.
Basically, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zobom View Post
If the mage cast Lesser Create Matter (Sword), he cannot cast a posterior magical effect involving the Sword (A DR enhancement for example) as the Subject would involve an active spell, in this case he should do in the same magic (Lesser Create Matter + Lesser Strenghten Matter)...
This is a bit complicated, but yes, he could. The reason is that the sword, once created lasts for the duration of the spell. You could then use a spell to enhance that swords DR, damage, etc. after the fact just like you could with any other subject for such an enhancing spell. NOW, you're going to be better off including the enhancing effect in the original spell, but there is nothing in the rules saying "no, you can't."

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Originally Posted by zobom View Post
Another question is about stack of Summon Allies... If summoned an Ally Spirit (G-Cre-Spt) (Ally 50% stating points, summonable, etc etc etc) and i name him BLUE, he can summon another equal but named RED? As the Advantage Ally can be bought multiple times and isnt a leveled advantage?
That's not how you summon allies in RPM. That was one of the holes in the original system I've since patched in my book GURPS Dungeon Fantasy 19: Incantation Magic with the Summoned modifier. Doing it your way is still passable (and the GM's call, really), but each summoned being is the subject of its own spell and since you can't summon it twice at the same time because it's a unique being there is no issue with stacking spells.

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Other thing... and this is a tough one... Can the path Energy be used to manipulate space/time as Crossroads? As the speed and gravity of objects can be changed with Energy, with sufficient amount of pressure you can compress space/time to a state that you are in the past/present/future altogether?
No. It cannot. At least I wouldn't let it. Want to muck with a gate? Use Path of Crossroads.
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Last edited by Christopher R. Rice; 04-05-2017 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 04-05-2017, 11:29 AM   #3
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Default Re: [RPM] Definition of Subject, Stacked Spells

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Other thing... and this is a tough one... Can the path Energy be used to manipulate space/time as Crossroads? As the speed and gravity of objects can be changed with Energy, with sufficient amount of pressure you can compress space/time to a state that you are in the past/present/future altogether?
Sure. For a black hole the mass of the Earth has a Schwarzschild radius of 9 mm. That would be about 1*10^18 energy points. It may take you some time to gather that much energy, but it's doable.
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Old 04-05-2017, 12:38 PM   #4
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Default Re: [RPM] Definition of Subject, Stacked Spells

Thank you for the clarification... Just another question...

Can i use RPM to give a subject, innate attack?

Ex.: a materialized Spiritual Sword - Innate Attack Burning 3d (ST Based; Melee C,1; Affects Insubstantial, Spirit), with Greater Destroy Spirit and Lesser Create Matter?
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Old 04-05-2017, 01:09 PM   #5
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Default Re: [RPM] Definition of Subject, Stacked Spells

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Originally Posted by zobom View Post
Thank you for the clarification... Just another question...

Can i use RPM to give a subject, innate attack?

Ex.: a materialized Spiritual Sword - Innate Attack Burning 3d (ST Based; Melee C,1; Affects Insubstantial, Spirit), with Greater Destroy Spirit and Lesser Create Matter?
The way to do this is via an appropriate effect (you'd need Greater Create Spirit for your example - add a Lesser Destroy Spirit effect if you want it to count as Holy). The damage is equal to the "direct damage" column for spells and can be combined with Duration in this particular instance. Add Affects Insubstantial as normal for damaging spells with enhancements (e.g., it adds +4 energy to the final damage cost).
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Old 04-05-2017, 04:52 PM   #6
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Default Re: [RPM] Definition of Subject, Stacked Spells

The stacking limits are mostly about stacking buffs and debuffs on people-type subjects, IME.
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Old 04-06-2017, 11:57 AM   #7
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Default Re: [RPM] Definition of Subject, Stacked Spells

Please, how to use telekinesis with Greater Control Matter? I've read something in the RPM book that impaired me with doubt... Something about using the TK's ST and DX using the Path skill level as reference... I've done this spell before with Altered Traits: Telekinesis, huge cost...

There is another way to do this spell?

Thanks
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Old 04-06-2017, 12:08 PM   #8
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Default Re: [RPM] Definition of Subject, Stacked Spells

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Please, how to use telekinesis with Greater Control Matter? I've read something in the RPM book that impaired me with doubt... Something about using the TK's ST and DX using the Path skill level as reference... I've done this spell before with Altered Traits: Telekinesis, huge cost...

There is another way to do this spell?

Thanks
All you need is Greater Control Matter + Subject Weight + Speed. Subject Weight concerns how much you can move and Speed concerns how fast you can make it go.
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Old 04-10-2017, 01:36 PM   #9
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Default Re: [RPM] Definition of Subject, Stacked Spells

Hi again... I've got some more questions about RPM...

Let's say that i use Lesser Create Matter and make a huge rock (4.000 ton), about the size of a small Caravel... As stated in the TH:RPM book, Lesser Create Matter can summon raw materials, in this case a huge rock... So i use in the same spell a Greater Control Matter and accelerate this rock at 100,000 y/s (Mach ~300)...

Calculating the resulting energy of this:

KE = 0,5 * (m*v²) = 0,5 * (4000 ton [40,000,000N] * 100,000 y/s² [91440m/s]²) =
1,67225472e+17 Joules...

Well... This is the equivalent energy liberated from a E.L.E. (Extintion Level Event)...

So... By my calculations this spell should cost 156 EP...

Lesser Create Matter 6pts
Greater Control Matter 5pts

Speed (100k) 28pts
Weight (4k) 12pts
Duration 10min 1pt...

Is this right? Can a crazy a** mage do this?
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Old 04-10-2017, 02:07 PM   #10
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Default Re: [RPM] Definition of Subject, Stacked Spells

Quote:
Originally Posted by zobom View Post
Hi again... I've got some more questions about RPM...

Let's say that i use Lesser Create Matter and make a huge rock (4.000 ton), about the size of a small Caravel... As stated in the TH:RPM book, Lesser Create Matter can summon raw materials, in this case a huge rock... So i use in the same spell a Greater Control Matter and accelerate this rock at 100,000 y/s (Mach ~300)...

Calculating the resulting energy of this:

KE = 0,5 * (m*v²) = 0,5 * (4000 ton [40,000,000N] * 100,000 y/s² [91440m/s]²) =
1,67225472e+17 Joules...

Well... This is the equivalent energy liberated from a E.L.E. (Extintion Level Event)...

So... By my calculations this spell should cost 156 EP...

Lesser Create Matter 6pts
Greater Control Matter 5pts

Speed (100k) 28pts
Weight (4k) 12pts
Duration 10min 1pt...

Is this right? Can a crazy a** mage do this?
No.

You ALWAYS pay for effect, even when it would not make any sense, because its magic.

If your on a bridge you can't summon a 50 tonn bolder and let the weight of it destroy the bridge, you need to pay for the damage to destroy the bridge.

Similarly the extinction level even will require lots of dice of damage (and probably area effect) or somehow, some way, it does not work.

How it fails to work is up to your GM just a flat 'no you can't do that, pay for the damage' is fine, but sometimes its fun to let it happen then prevent any damage from being done.
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