Servant Level WTF?

PenitentDemon · 12-08-2010, 08:39 AM

Just thought abaout it a bit... it says that a servamts resources level, Makes him easier to control... well heres a problem I noticed..

In particular... Heaven will likely have less trouble getting obedience from its servants then hell, beyond that... Im pretty Sure People serving Baal, or Asmoesdoes, just by what kinds of people they would generally be, will tend to be more obedient, then a servant of say Vaelfor Malefas.

Point is is their a point in a Servitor of baal, taking a Soldier or imp at a high resource level, when its practicaly a certainty, that if they disobey, he will destroy them.

Laurence, or Dominics Servitors, are only so much more lenient.

JCD · 12-08-2010, 12:41 PM

Not following your point. If you are saying that philosophicaly Valefor etc will not buy up the control aspect of a Servant, you are probably right (though I easily see a Servitor of Valefor having incriminating polaroids of someone useful 'in a safe place')

Lilim might feel the same way...but see no problem using geases to enforce obedience (they were perfectly free to turn down the favor...)

Angels are marginally less likely to ask servants to do things they have moral qualms at doing (But as 'A Bright Dream' showed, have NO problem forcing their Servants into doing moral things they don't want to do), but both sides in general are 'big picture' types and we know what THEY are like.

Azel · 12-08-2010, 01:22 PM

He who destroys his servants off hand will one day soon have to sweep the floors himself.

Servants are a resource. You buy this resource at a higher level to get penalties against their will, so they have less of an ability to resist your orders. These are the basic facts we all agree on.

Your question (as I believe I understand it) is, "why bother? Just threaten their very existence!"

Well, true, you could do that, but then at some point you'll have to chase them down and actually *do it*. It's time consuming and messy and well, the main key to holding power is conservation of resources. Getting your vengeance upon every disobedient gremlin is not exactly the best use of the powerful's time...

Threats are useful, but they only go so far. Sometimes you need another person to do something far more than they need to avoid your wrath. Sure, you could kill them if they say no, but then you're right back where you started from -- and without a servant as a resource. That's when it's easier to break their will. It avoids these little "conflicts of interest" in the future, (particularly when time is of the essence).

(Explanatory Aside: This is the principle of authority being more useful than overt displays of power. Further, delegated authority is useful because it does more than conserve your displays of power. It expands your sphere of influence almost exponentially, cuts down on micromanaging, and uses up displays of power from any potential upstarts. The only wrench in the machine is levels of obedience to authority. Thus, if you can have a few "aces up one's sleeve" against disobedience -- without having to resort to overt power -- all the better. You keep a resource AND get what you want.)

Andygal · 12-08-2010, 02:13 PM

Plus even if the death threats work, they **** people off. And if you **** people off enough, sooner or later they're going to stab you in the back, it's very difficult to actually cow people into permanent obedience with threats. They'll do what you want when you're watching them, but eventually they'll stab you in the back when you AREN'T watching them. With a Servant at a high resource level you can usually be assured they'll do what they are told without being hounded continuously.

Rocket Man · 12-08-2010, 04:11 PM

To paraphrase the idea from Machiavelli: It is good for a leader to be loved. It is good for a leader to be feared. But what a leader must never, ever be is hated.

Matthias Wasser · 12-08-2010, 05:10 PM

Servant levels aren't part of the diegetic world, but of the game's attempt to balance different character options. (Insert the obvious joke here.) If you have a Servant that's loyal because you threaten her at flaming swordpoint, she's loyal in practice, and is therefore priced at a high level.

12-08-2010, 08:39 AM	#1
PenitentDemon Join Date: Aug 2008	Servant Level WTF? Just thought abaout it a bit... it says that a servamts resources level, Makes him easier to control... well heres a problem I noticed.. In particular... Heaven will likely have less trouble getting obedience from its servants then hell, beyond that... Im pretty Sure People serving Baal, or Asmoesdoes, just by what kinds of people they would generally be, will tend to be more obedient, then a servant of say Vaelfor Malefas. Point is is their a point in a Servitor of baal, taking a Soldier or imp at a high resource level, when its practicaly a certainty, that if they disobey, he will destroy them. Laurence, or Dominics Servitors, are only so much more lenient.

12-08-2010, 12:41 PM	#2
JCD Join Date: May 2008 Location: Birthplace of the Worst Pizza on the Planet	Re: Servant Level WTF? Not following your point. If you are saying that philosophicaly Valefor etc will not buy up the control aspect of a Servant, you are probably right (though I easily see a Servitor of Valefor having incriminating polaroids of someone useful 'in a safe place') Lilim might feel the same way...but see no problem using geases to enforce obedience (they were perfectly free to turn down the favor...) Angels are marginally less likely to ask servants to do things they have moral qualms at doing (But as 'A Bright Dream' showed, have NO problem forcing their Servants into doing moral things they don't want to do), but both sides in general are 'big picture' types and we know what THEY are like.

12-08-2010, 01:22 PM	#3
Azel Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: South of the Town across from the City by the Bay	Re: Servant Level WTF? He who destroys his servants off hand will one day soon have to sweep the floors himself. Servants are a resource. You buy this resource at a higher level to get penalties against their will, so they have less of an ability to resist your orders. These are the basic facts we all agree on. Your question (as I believe I understand it) is, "why bother? Just threaten their very existence!" Well, true, you could do that, but then at some point you'll have to chase them down and actually do it. It's time consuming and messy and well, the main key to holding power is conservation of resources. Getting your vengeance upon every disobedient gremlin is not exactly the best use of the powerful's time... Threats are useful, but they only go so far. Sometimes you need another person to do something far more than they need to avoid your wrath. Sure, you could kill them if they say no, but then you're right back where you started from -- and without a servant as a resource. That's when it's easier to break their will. It avoids these little "conflicts of interest" in the future, (particularly when time is of the essence). (Explanatory Aside: This is the principle of authority being more useful than overt displays of power. Further, delegated authority is useful because it does more than conserve your displays of power. It expands your sphere of influence almost exponentially, cuts down on micromanaging, and uses up displays of power from any potential upstarts. The only wrench in the machine is levels of obedience to authority. Thus, if you can have a few "aces up one's sleeve" against disobedience -- without having to resort to overt power -- all the better. You keep a resource AND get what you want.)

12-08-2010, 02:13 PM	#4
Andygal Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Canada	Re: Servant Level WTF? Plus even if the death threats work, they ** people off. And if you ** people off enough, sooner or later they're going to stab you in the back, it's very difficult to actually cow people into permanent obedience with threats. They'll do what you want when you're watching them, but eventually they'll stab you in the back when you AREN'T watching them. With a Servant at a high resource level you can usually be assured they'll do what they are told without being hounded continuously. __________________ There are 10 types of people in the world, those who understand trinary, those who don't, and those who are sick to death of this darn joke.

12-08-2010, 04:11 PM	#5
Rocket Man Petitioner: Word of IN Filk Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Longmont, CO	Re: Servant Level WTF? To paraphrase the idea from Machiavelli: It is good for a leader to be loved. It is good for a leader to be feared. But what a leader must never, ever be is hated. __________________ “It's not railroading if you offer the PCs tickets and they stampede to the box office, waving their money. Metaphorically speaking” --Elizabeth McCoy, In Nomine Line Editor Author: "What Doesn't Kill Me Makes Me Stronger"

12-08-2010, 05:10 PM	#6
Matthias Wasser Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Boston	Re: Servant Level WTF? Servant levels aren't part of the diegetic world, but of the game's attempt to balance different character options. (Insert the obvious joke here.) If you have a Servant that's loyal because you threaten her at flaming swordpoint, she's loyal in practice, and is therefore priced at a high level.