Lord of the Rings Elven Racial Template

[Gavynn]

Originally Posted by JAW

Well this sounds like several points of charisma to me. The glow might be totally unphysical - ie not actual photons but sort of illusion created in obserwers mind.

Charisma might not be inappropriate here. In fact, I was thinking earlier about how the light might even be able to be "felt" by others.

[Mercator]

Originally Posted by Gavynn

But this might just me made a feature about why they have their bonuses to those checks, rather than a reason to increase the bonuses.

Exactly. I would include it as a Perk in the "Calaquenda" lens Agemegos suggested. This lens could include the strongest of the Spirit abilities in your Noldo template; one or two levels of Charisma; and maybe True Faith (turning) for Orcs and servants of the Dark Lord. I understand that these abilities are only available to those who had been in Valinor or seen the face of a Maiar, as in the case of King Thingol. What do you think?

Either way, I might say that even the brightest glow might be barely visible in direct sunlight. More of an evening/night thing to me.

Very appropriate.

My intention is basically to put together a LotR supplement to run my games - a trilogy (of course) that I am going to write up and put online as well (as a GM document).

Excellent idea. I think that, contrary to what many people think (including -gasp- the Almighty Kromm), the Middle-Earth can be a good gaming world with a bit of work. Keep up with the good work, and keep us informed!

The game will start during the WotR time, and the second installment will start in the Fourth Age. Since you are familiar with MERP, have you read Palantir Quest? That is going to be the second part of my trilogy, but I am going to expensively rewrite it to be more Tolkien and less D&D like I felt it strayed at more than a few points.

I haven't read Palantir Quest, so I'm afraid I can't help you much there. I don't really like pre-made adeventures, so I preferred the more generic stuff (like the Lorien supplement, etc.). From what I have read, it looks like a pretty high-powered campaign. Hmmm . . .

The early Fourth Age can be very interesting and gameable. There is a lot to do: consolidating the Reunited Kingdom, both diplomatically and militarily; seting up trade links with the remote nations in southern and Eastern Middle-Earth; exploring and repopulating the north; and of course occupying and cleaning up all of Mordor: Sauron is gone, but strong Orc or Human warlords may set up petty kingdoms in Mordor and resist takeover. Lots of adventures for decades to come . . .

Cheers,

M

[Gavynn]

Originally Posted by Mercator

Exactly. I would include it as a Perk in the "Calaquenda" lens Agemegos suggested. This lens could include the strongest of the Spirit abilities in your Noldo template; one or two levels of Charisma; and maybe True Faith (turning) for Orcs and servants of the Dark Lord. I understand that these abilities are only available to those who had been in Valinor or seen the face of a Maiar, as in the case of King Thingol. What do you think?

I think that I am with you almost 100%. I am already usig True Faith to have them be able to turn spirits (those things unseen they have control over) so I think they should use intimidate to "turn" an orc. It feels more intuitive that way, to me at least.

Originally Posted by Mercator

Excellent idea. I think that, contrary to what many people think (including -gasp- the Almighty Kromm), the Middle-Earth can be a good gaming world with a bit of work. Keep up with the good work, and keep us informed!

Shock and horror! I had not read where Kromm thought that Middle-earth would not be a good gaming world.

Originally Posted by Mercator

I haven't read Palantir Quest, so I'm afraid I can't help you much there. I don't really like pre-made adeventures, so I preferred the more generic stuff (like the Lorien supplement, etc.). From what I have read, it looks like a pretty high-powered campaign. Hmmm . . .

I tend to buy pre-made adventure to scavage them for ideas and maps. I think the overall plot line of Palantir Quest is great, but most of the details must be reworked, so with most of my pre-made adventures, it would be mor like a game "based on Palantir Quest" more so than a direct conversion. Too many D&D element slipped in there I think. Ironically, I don't think that would consider the game to be high powered. In fact, I won't even allow elves as PCs. I am thinking 100 (or 150 as that appears to have become more standard in 4th ed.) point PC - all human with the possibility of a dwarf or two.

Originally Posted by Mercator

The early Fourth Age can be very interesting and gameable. There is a lot to do: consolidating the Reunited Kingdom, both diplomatically and militarily; seting up trade links with the remote nations in southern and Eastern Middle-Earth; exploring and repopulating the north; and of course occupying and cleaning up all of Mordor: Sauron is gone, but strong Orc or Human warlords may set up petty kingdoms in Mordor and resist takeover. Lots of adventures for decades to come . . .

Lots of people "poo-poo" 4th age game play (that I know anyway) and I really don't understand it. There is tons to do and adventure to be had. That is partially why my plan is to start the game in the War of the Ring, and then let that go into the 4th Age for the second installment.

[NineDaysDead]

Elves seem to have better memories than humans, what about Eidetic Memory [5]?

[Mercator]

Originally Posted by Gavynn

I am already usig True Faith to have them be able to turn spirits (those things unseen they have control over) so I think they should use intimidate to "turn" an orc. It feels more intuitive that way, to me at least.

Makes sense. Do you plan to give them Terror?

Shock and horror! I had not read where Kromm thought that Middle-earth would not be a good gaming world.

Alas, it is true. He goes ever farther, actually; read on . . .

I tend to buy pre-made adventure to scavage them for ideas and maps.

The same thing I do. There are very few commercial scenarios I have really liked, but almos all of them have something worth stealing.

I think the overall plot line of Palantir Quest is great, but most of the details must be reworked, so with most of my pre-made adventures, it would be mor like a game "based on Palantir Quest" more so than a direct conversion. Too many D&D element slipped in there I think.

That is quite frequent in the MERP scenarios I have seen. Oh, well . . .

Ironically, I don't think that would consider the game to be high powered. In fact, I won't even allow elves as PCs. I am thinking 100 (or 150 as that appears to have become more standard in 4th ed.) point PC - all human with the possibility of a dwarf or two.

Sounds great. Low-powered Lord of the RIngs. That's exactly the kind of thing I'd like to play.

Lots of people "poo-poo" 4th age game play (that I know anyway) and I really don't understand it. There is tons to do and adventure to be had.

I suspect that Tolkien himself is guilty; the way LoTR ends makes you think that the Fourth Age is an Utopia from day 1. In a realistic world, the fall of Sauron would be just the beginning of a decades-long effort at internal pacification and nation-building.

That is partially why my plan is to start the game in the War of the Ring, and then let that go into the 4th Age for the second installment.

Good luck, and keep us informed!

M.

[Gavynn]

Originally Posted by Mercator

Makes sense. Do you plan to give them Terror?

I am looking at the intimidation skill and I see that it notes "+1 to +4 for displays of strength, bloodthirstiness, or supernatural powers" so I think that the ability might be able to be modeled well with just a supernatural bonus to the intimidation skill.

[Gavynn]

Been working some more on these templates, and was wondering if anyone had any ideas as to how to stat up the Avari or the Vanyar elves. They do not come into many tales for sure, but I thought perhaps that some people more familiar with the Histories could shed some light on possibile GURPS stats interpetations.

I would start with the a modified Noldo template for the Vanyar, but they cannot be as great in lore and craft as the Noldo. What could be the Vanyar's shtick?

What about the Avari? I'd start with a modified Sylvan template, but Avari culture is almost entirely a conjecture. Would the Avari have the tremendous afinity for nature like the Sylvans, or was that acquired later? I am tempted to make the Avari cave dwellers since both Sylvan and Sindarian cultures make their homes in caves. This could be a throw-back to a shared culture.

Any thoughts or opinions?

[TheQuestionMan]

I really wish I could help and your right about the Avari.


Damn good work so far ;)


QM

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Gavynn

I would start with the a modified Noldo template for the Vanyar, but they cannot be as great in lore and craft as the Noldo. What could be the Vanyar's shtick?

Lore's pretty sparse on the ground for the Vanyar, unfortunately. Basically, we know that:
1) They were really good looking, even for elves. Most of the elves described as most beautiful (with the significant exceptions of Luthien and Arwen) had Vanyar blood. Galadriel was a good example of this. You might want to look at Transcendant Appearance and Charisma.
2) They were particularly beloved by Manwe and Varda. This probably indicates they have an even stronger connection to the Blessed Realm then the Noldor did. They might qualify for some subset of the Blessed advantage, or possibly True Faith.
3) They were really very good. I can't think of a single example of a Vanyar giving in to corruption, or even going along with Feanor. Possibly slap on a few Taboo Traits, covering classic "evil" disads like Greed, Sadist, Selfishness, etc.

Originally Posted by Gavynn

What about the Avari? I'd start with a modified Sylvan template, but Avari culture is almost entirely a conjecture. Would the Avari have the tremendous afinity for nature like the Sylvans, or was that acquired later?

I'd say that the affinity for nature was a general elven thing, which the High Elves later drifted from. Really, the difference between Sylvan/Sindarin elves and Avari should probably be a loss of the Grey Elves major singing and voice advantages.

Originally Posted by Gavynn

I am tempted to make the Avari cave dwellers since both Sylvan and Sindarian cultures make their homes in caves. This could be a throughback to a shared culture.

Actually, this doesn't seem to be particularly universal. The Grey Elves tended to like wandering about freely under the open sky. It was Thingol who first decided that he needed a fortified dwelling, when the orcs started to cause trouble in Belieriand. He went to the Dwarves to do it, and the Dwarves tend to prefer to expand existing caves rather than build entirely new buildings. Later on, King Tharanduil of Mirkwood deliberately built his halls in imitation of
Thingol. Outside of those two, I can't think of any other examples of Sindar/Sylvan elves living in caves. Unless you count Finrod's Sindar subjects, but Finrod was a Noldor, and was copying Thingol anyway.

[Gavynn]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

Lore's pretty sparse on the ground for the Vanyar, unfortunately. Basically, we know that:
1) They were really good looking, even for elves. Most of the elves described as most beautiful (with the significant exceptions of Luthien and Arwen) had Vanyar blood. Galadriel was a good example of this. You might want to look at Transcendant Appearance and Charisma.
2) They were particularly beloved by Manwe and Varda. This probably indicates they have an even stronger connection to the Blessed Realm then the Noldor did. They might qualify for some subset of the Blessed advantage, or possibly True Faith.
3) They were really very good. I can't think of a single example of a Vanyar giving in to corruption, or even going along with Feanor. Possibly slap on a few Taboo Traits, covering classic "evil" disads like Greed, Sadist, Selfishness, etc.

Very nice - being incorporated.

Actually, this doesn't seem to be particularly universal. The Grey Elves tended to like wandering about freely under the open sky. It was Thingol who first decided that he needed a fortified dwelling, when the orcs started to cause trouble in Belieriand. He went to the Dwarves to do it, and the Dwarves tend to prefer to expand existing caves rather than build entirely new buildings. Later on, King Tharanduil of Mirkwood deliberately built his halls in imitation of Thingol. Outside of those two, I can't think of any other examples of Sindar/Sylvan elves living in caves. Unless you count Finrod's Sindar subjects, but Finrod was a Noldor, and was copying Thingol anyway.

Very interesting. If you know that that Thranduil built is hall in imitation of Thingol's capital, then I will certainly work off that. Previously, I had figured that the Elven dwelling in Amon Lanc in the Greenwood was amoung the first elven habitations to be established by those turning aside from the Great Journey. Being that its name means "Naked Hill" I never assumed it was a tree dwelling a la Lorien, and the Lorien elves appear to the only ones that live in trees like "classic" elves. I figured if they lived in trees on the hill the hill would not have been naked. It is possible they built a city on this naked hill, but I assumed they lived under it. When it was captured by Sauron I built Dol Guldur on top of it. I had assumed that the pits beneath Dol Guldur were the ruins of the elf structures. Thus, Thranduil was remaking the earthen dwelling of Amon Lanc in Northern Mirkwood, though no doubt inspired by the greatness of Thingol's capital.

Of course, the nature of the elven habitation at Amon Lanc is largely open to speculation.