11-08-2014, 02:33 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Sep 2014
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Low basic bare-handed damage against high-ST character
An untrained character with ST 7 makes 1d-4 damage with a punch. That means he has 33.3% chance to cause at least 1 HP injury to an unprotected target. With AoA (Strong) his odds become higher - 66.6%.
Let's assume a feeble clerk (ST 7) attacks a bare-chested heavyweight champion (ST and HT ~14, HP ~18). Clerk only attacks torso, and he only punches. Champ doesn't defend, he's simply tensed his muscles in order to offset damage. I think that realistically (that's the way I see it, but I admit I can be wrong) clerk can punch champ's torso dozens of times without doing any damage worth noting - champ's muscles are just too tough, while clerk's punches are too weak, and his fists are "soft". Under the rules clerk has, as I mentioned above, 33.3% (66.6% with AoA) chance to cause at least 1 HP injury. Eventually he'll be able to beat champ to 0 HP in one minute or even faster. And even ST 4 character can do the same, though he'll need a bit more time (and AoA becomes really helpful). I realize that this is an edge case, but I really believe that strong human's torso must be much more durable against mere punches, especially those committed by a weakling. If clerk had a knife or brass knuckles, that would be another story, but he hasn't. Shouldn't there be any threshold for a low-ST character to cause injury bare-handed? Maybe some sort of DR against crushing bare-handed attacks? Maybe there is a rule about that somewhere in GURPS rulebooks? |
11-08-2014, 02:57 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Re: Low basic bare-handed damage against high-ST character
Meat is meat. If ST 7 guy can hurt anyone, he can hurt HP 18 guy.
Note that 1 point of damage matters a lot less to HP 18 guy than it does to ordinary HP 10 people. If you want to make HP 18 guy exceptionally tough, give him a point of DR with Tough Skin limitation; this is somewhat unrealistic, but not grossly so, and it'll make him nearly immune to ST 7 guy. |
11-08-2014, 03:04 PM | #3 | |
Join Date: Sep 2014
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Re: Low basic bare-handed damage against high-ST character
I agree that ST 7 guy can cause damage. I just don't think he can beat up heavyweight champ in one minute.
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I thought about this solution, but DR is an Exotic advantage. Sure, I can always house rule it (if there ever will be a clerk beating bare-chested immobilized heavyweight champ in my campaign), but only if there's no solution by the RAW. |
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11-08-2014, 03:37 PM | #4 |
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Re: Low basic bare-handed damage against high-ST character
Instead of the chest, he should target the kidneys, groin, and (if he can reach), rabbit-punches to the skull. You can really hurt an undefended person in 60 sec that way.
The problem lies with the tensing of the torso muscles. This is a kind of defense. Caught unawares, Charles Atlas could take a damaging blow to the gut. But prepared he has little worry. I'm not aware that GURPS can simulate this, however.
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11-08-2014, 03:46 PM | #5 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: Low basic bare-handed damage against high-ST character
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Special Exercises (DR 1 with Tough Skin and Limited, Crushing) 1 [1] Prerequisite HP 14+, and HT 12+ Special Exercises (DR 1 with Tough Skin and Limited, Crushing) 2 [2] Prerequisite HP 18+, and HT 14+ |
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11-08-2014, 04:03 PM | #6 | ||
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Re: Low basic bare-handed damage against high-ST character
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Realistically, he'd probably hurt his hands before he delivered 60 serious punches. But that's below GURPS' resolution. Quote:
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11-08-2014, 06:34 PM | #7 |
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Re: Low basic bare-handed damage against high-ST character
I'd be inclined to say that this qualifies as a sort of parry. There's definitely a trick to tensing the right muscles at the right time to lessen the impact of a blow, something that's at least partially skill-based and not just a function of being a strong guy.
Last edited by Toptomcat; 11-08-2014 at 07:00 PM. |
11-08-2014, 07:01 PM | #8 |
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Oregon
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Re: Low basic bare-handed damage against high-ST character
Really, you're just highlighting one of the intrinsic problems of an attrition-based damage system. The same problem is evident when firing a machinegun at a battleship, for example. Reality probably cares more about the single most damaging injury than an accumulation of tiny wounds. There are a variety of non-cumulative or semi-cumulative wounding houserules. I'm fond of lwcamp's wounding system.
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11-08-2014, 07:09 PM | #9 |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Low basic bare-handed damage against high-ST character
I wrote about this a bit in my blog post Shrug it Off.
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11-08-2014, 11:04 PM | #10 | |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: Low basic bare-handed damage against high-ST character
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Long experience of taking full-power punches without disabling harm makes a difference.
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