Real-Life Weirdness

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Anders

I'm getting tired of people using non-Euclidean as a shorthand for horrific.

Blame Lovecraft, not me. Or maybe you could popularize the point by writing a best-selling RPG, "Call of Lobachevsky", or just a supplement, say "The Riemann Dossier".

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Anders

You mean it wasn't draw on a flat, or flattish, background? I'm getting tired of people using non-Euclidean as a shorthand for horrific. The Earth is non-Euclidan, ffs. Ask any pilot.

Are you sure the word means what people think it means?

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Anders

You mean it wasn't draw on a flat, or flattish, background? I'm getting tired of people using non-Euclidean as a shorthand for horrific. The Earth is non-Euclidan, ffs. Ask any pilot.

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Are you sure the word means what people think it means?

The two-dimensional surface of a sphere is non-euclidean-- two seemingly parallel lines on it will intersect at two points. The corners of a triangle do not sum to 180 degrees, and the law of sines looks hilarious (you start taking the sin of a length).

Yes, non-euclidean spaces can be confusing at first-- they also can be understood-- the game portal is an exercise in human understanding of a very specialized non-euclidean space. And as someone who likes to imagine this sort of thing every so often, I find the use insulting.

Its one of the worst abuses of science in sci-fantasy (yes, lovecraft is sci-fantasy).

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Luke Bunyip

Don't think this has been posted here before.

BOKOR Hill Station, an abandoned Cambodian resort town

smurf has mentioned it a few times, but I think it first came up incidentally in a brief-lived thread Abandoned Man-Made Structures.

Another bucket list item.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by ericthered

The two-dimensional surface of a sphere is non-euclidean-- two seemingly parallel lines on it will intersect at two points. The corners of a triangle do not sum to 180 degrees, and the law of sines looks hilarious (you start taking the sin of a length).

Yes, non-euclidean spaces can be confusing at first-- they also can be understood-- the game portal is an exercise in human understanding of a very specialized non-euclidean space. And as someone who likes to imagine this sort of thing every so often, I find the use insulting.

Its one of the worst abuses of science in sci-fantasy (yes, lovecraft is sci-fantasy).

What I meant is that 'Euclidean' can also be applied to something that is volumetric (voluminous?), not flat. The surface of a sphere is a non-euclidean surface, but the sphere itself might very well be euclidean as long as it exists in a space where the angles between the segments Sol-ACentauri, Sol-ACeti, and ACentauri-ACeti (or any other three points in space) add up to 180°.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Anders

You mean it wasn't draw on a flat, or flattish, background? I'm getting tired of people using non-Euclidean as a shorthand for horrific. The Earth is non-Euclidan, ffs. Ask any pilot.

Most people don't know they're using it for "wrong" shorthand. Most people think it means impossible geometry as it pertains to our reality.

It happens whenever real specific scientific words cross over into common use.
I'm sure we all use some incorrectly, and only get huffy when others use terms we intimately understand.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by ericthered

The two-dimensional surface of a sphere is non-euclidean-- two seemingly parallel lines on it will intersect at two points. The corners of a triangle do not sum to 180 degrees, and the law of sines looks hilarious (you start taking the sin of a length).

Yes, non-euclidean spaces can be confusing at first-- they also can be understood-- the game portal is an exercise in human understanding of a very specialized non-euclidean space. And as someone who likes to imagine this sort of thing every so often, I find the use insulting.

Its one of the worst abuses of science in sci-fantasy (yes, lovecraft is sci-fantasy).

Lovecraft hardly abused it the way people who mock his purple prose think he did.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

What I meant is that 'Euclidean' can also be applied to something that is volumetric (voluminous?), not flat. The surface of a sphere is a non-euclidean surface, but the sphere itself might very well be euclidean as long as it exists in a space where the angles between the segments Sol-ACentauri, Sol-ACeti, and ACentauri-ACeti (or any other three points in space) add up to 180°.

True, it does depend on context. Actually, a large subset of non-euclidean spaces can be understood as curves in a euclidean space of higher dimensions. The simplest non-euclidean geometry I'm aware of is the surface of the earth treated as though its flat rather than a sphere. The math for that is well established and its actually useful (for navigation).

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Lovecraft hardly abused it the way people who mock his purple prose think he did.

that may be, but it certainly inspired a great many fans who do! (my lovecraft exposure is mostly second hand.) but I'm tuning out on this subject now, at least for this thread.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Lovecraft hardly abused it the way people who mock his purple prose think he did.

Yeah, I think when he wrote it, he actually meant it. Those things were supposed to be anomalous in all sorts of ways, and this is just one way to do a spatial anomaly.

Originally Posted by ericthered

True, it does depend on context. Actually, a large subset of non-euclidean spaces can be understood as curves in a euclidean space of higher dimensions. The simplest non-euclidean geometry I'm aware of is the surface of the earth treated as though its flat rather than a sphere. The math for that is well established and its actually useful (for navigation).

Awww, I kinda prefer the pseudosphere; more fun that way.