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Old 12-15-2018, 05:25 PM   #401
RogerBW
 
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Default Re: [Ultra-Tech] What does the TL10 battlefield look like

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Originally Posted by Rupert View Post
Well, this does depend on the other properties of such materials. Unless this thermal superconductor (which smells of superscience to me, but that's another discussion) is also very tough, once you've exposed it you attack it mechanically. However, having to swap attacks layer by layer slows you down, means you need more equipment, etc.
Yes. Basically it means that if you want the contents you have to attack the layer outside the TS by non-heat methods – nanotech, drilling, sawing, etc., all of which are slower than heat-based cutting – in order to get to the TS layer.
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Old 12-15-2018, 05:36 PM   #402
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Default Re: [Ultra-Tech] What does the TL10 battlefield look like

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Yes. Basically it means that if you want the contents you have to attack the layer outside the TS by non-heat methods – nanotech, drilling, sawing, etc., all of which are slower than heat-based cutting – in order to get to the TS layer.
Do thermal superconductors have unlimited interface conductivity as well as unlimited internal conductivity? I wouldn't expect that...
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Old 12-15-2018, 05:38 PM   #403
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Default Re: [Ultra-Tech] What does the TL10 battlefield look like

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Yes. Basically it means that if you want the contents you have to attack the layer outside the TS by non-heat methods – nanotech, drilling, sawing, etc., all of which are slower than heat-based cutting – in order to get to the TS layer.
An option is to use a cutting beam of ionizing radiation. That would attack the molecular bonds in question directly and macroscopic molecular characteristics wouldn't realy matter.

This would defintely be the case with TL11 X-ray Laser Torches but their ought to be a far UV-based version for TL10.
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Old 12-15-2018, 06:13 PM   #404
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Default Re: [Ultra-Tech] What does the TL10 battlefield look like

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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
This would defintely be the case with TL11 X-ray Laser Torches but their ought to be a far UV-based version for TL10.
And any particle beam is ionizing radiation. Blaster weapons are TL 11, but simply generating an electron beam to cut with at short range isn't.
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Last edited by Anthony; 12-15-2018 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 12-15-2018, 06:28 PM   #405
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Default Re: [Ultra-Tech] What does the TL10 battlefield look like

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And any particle beam is ionizing radiation. Blaster weapons are TL 11, but simply generating an electron beam to cut with at short range isn't.
Even per UT you can get particle beam weapons at TL10 if you don't mind them being big.
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Old 12-15-2018, 07:32 PM   #406
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Default Re: [Ultra-Tech] What does the TL10 battlefield look like

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Do thermal superconductors have unlimited interface conductivity as well as unlimited internal conductivity? I wouldn't expect that...
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Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
An option is to use a cutting beam of ionizing radiation. That would attack the molecular bonds in question directly and macroscopic molecular characteristics wouldn't realy matter.
Well if we are going to bring real science into it ...

Thermal superconductors are super-science. They don't even make sense to our modern understanding of superconductivity (superconductivity occurs because all the electrons pair up and enter a "condensate" which all has the same quantum state. Same state means zero entropy. Zero entropy means no heat conduction). Maybe they don't have anything to do with what we understand as superconductivity, and just have a very high thermal conductivity?

But even if they could exist, in analogy with electrical superconductors there will be limits to what they can handle. An electrical superconductor loses its superconductivity if it gets too hot, if it is exposed to too high of a magnetic field, or if the current through it gets too high. So a thermal superconductor would stop being superconductive if the temperature got too high, or if the heat flux through it got too high, or if the temperature gradient got too high. Consequently, laser pulses would probably still blast the stuff anyway.

So let's say the thermal superconductors do exist after all. Now note that many nominally "heat" based attacks work through a combination of both heating and mechanical effects. Take a laser cutter, for example. These can work through a number of different damage modes. A high intensity beam - anywhere from megawatts to gigawatts, depending on the material, focused onto a small spot - will evaporate material so fast that it will develop a pressure in excess of the strength of that material. Consequently, the material will deform mechanically, driving a cavity or hole into the material. If there is stuff overlaying the thermal superconductor, the pressure from this as it evaporates would break the thermal superconductor. If there isn't stuff over the top of the thermal superconductor layer, a can of spray paint will do the job for you.

Even more extreme are the terawatt and petawatt laser pulses that can be generated even today. The electric fields are so high that the pulse can simply rip electrons right off of atoms. The pulse is so fast that the atoms don't even have time to respond before the pulse is over - the electrons are stripped from the atoms and turned into an extremely energetic plasma, with all the chemical bonds that previously held the material together broken. You have an unusual situation for a moment where the temperature of the material isn't well defined. The electrons actually have a different temperature than the atomic nuclei. This cannot last, of course. The electron plasma disperses and the same-charge atomic nuclei repel each other to form an explosion. For laser pulses of this magnitude, thermal conductivity never even comes into play, the target matter is just ripped apart electronically.

As others are mentioning, ionizing radiation, such as particle beams or lasers emitting at an ionizing frequency, can also be used to overcome any issues with thermal conductivity.

Luke

Last edited by lwcamp; 12-16-2018 at 09:35 AM.
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Old 12-16-2018, 09:20 AM   #407
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Default Re: [Ultra-Tech] What does the TL10 battlefield look like

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Maybe they don't have anything to do with what we understand as superconductivity, and just have a very high thermal conductivity?
I saw a single isolated news report some years ago of a team that had made an artificial diamond out of carbon-12 only (mostly as an exercise in precision and control). They reported that it had a thermal conductivity 10x that of "normal" diamond. That should qualify as "very high".

I've never seen anything more about it. Possibly a consequence of hyper-spcialized research. Do something odd enough and you won't have any peers and without any direct applications you won't even follow up on it yourself.

If mono-isotope materials or some other advanced technique does make these materials with very high thermal conductivity the applications p[robably won't be armor but more likely things like controlling skin temperatures on supersonic aircraft and radiator fins for hard science spacecraft .
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