Help building a religion

[Lameth]

In my modern secret magic game I want to add the beginning of a new over encompassing villian. The idea in the future will be a uber catholic branch of the faith. Very hell fire and brimstone with a iron hold on various branches of the local government, and even high levels. I want to give the feeling of a cold and unfeeling stone tower monster of faith. They will have a very different view of the Bible....almost a modern version of the Middle Ages church, with secrets, code word, new sayings etc. To give a feeling of the old is new again and an oppressive church that will then move into the future for a future plot...when this new branch proclaims alternate faiths as devil worship or worse. This will then impact a few pcs and major npcs that are of odd faiths such as Wicca or Norse.

My question is what is the best way to start these seeds? I was thinking that on my world the former Vice President was very religious in a scary way, and even traveled with his own bishop. I'm thinking of maybe having him come back in to the light, with a lot of backing and money. Or maybe a new bishop or cardinal rises in the US in a special way and begins a grass roots faith building that is almost cult like, ala Brother Blood of D.C. Comics. I want the pcs to start seeing the rise of this over the next months with a few bad feelings and when it is finally is seen as the big bad, it's to late. I want this to be the religious version of the nazi party...a slow build and then before you know it they are your overlords. Thoughts? My US is already messed up due do major city riots five years back, high unimployment, meat and milk is high still due to a major disease that killed many cows three years ago, and a major fallen city in Idaho due to a nuclear incident and have become a place of the dregs of the world.

Yes the "true" Catholic Church itself might be at war with them or in silence rebuking. Or maybe they are branding as a hate group, but their power in government stops anything from happening. I want this to be a slow build, and in he end a major background villian that delivers another layer of oppression and coldness to the world. I imagine the local Wicca store being burned down to clean the streets due to their dark rites the church speaks of, roving groups of thugs to police the streets for the faith, and more..

Thanks

[Curmudgeon]

Originally Posted by Lameth

In my modern secret magic game I want to add the beginning of a new over encompassing villian. The idea in the future will be a uber catholic branch of the faith. Very hell fire and brimstone with a iron hold on various branches of the local government, and even high levels. I want to give the feeling of a cold and unfeeling stone tower monster of faith. They will have a very different view of the Bible....almost a modern version of the Middle Ages church, with secrets, code word, new sayings etc. To give a feeling of the old is new again and an oppressive church that will then move into the future for a future plot...when this new branch proclaims alternate faiths as devil worship or worse. This will then impact a few pcs and major npcs that are of odd faiths such as Wicca or Norse.

My question is what is the best way to start these seeds? I was thinking that on my world the former Vice President was very religious in a scary way, and even traveled with his own bishop. I'm thinking of maybe having him come back in to the light, with a lot of backing and money. Or maybe a new bishop or cardinal rises in the US in a special way and begins a grass roots faith building that is almost cult like, ala Brother Blood of D.C. Comics. I want the pcs to start seeing the rise of this over the next months with a few bad feelings and when it is finally is seen as the big bad, it's to late. I want this to be the religious version of the nazi party...a slow build and then before you know it they are your overlords. Thoughts? My US is already messed up due do major city riots five years back, high unimployment, meat and milk is high still due to a major disease that killed many cows three years ago, and a major fallen city in Idaho due to a nuclear incident and have become a place of the dregs of the world.

Yes the "true" Catholic Church itself might be at war with them or in silence rebuking. Or maybe they are branding as a hate group, but their power in government stops anything from happening. I want this to be a slow build, and in he end a major background villian that delivers another layer of oppression and coldness to the world. I imagine the local Wicca store being burned down to clean the streets due to their dark rites the church speaks of, roving groups of thugs to police the streets for the faith, and more..

Thanks

Even with your disasters, you have to figure two things for your new religion. First, what is their appeal to their base. They aren't going to be a major force, much less one to be reckoned with, if they have to hold their base at gunpoint. So what is appealing about it. Next you need to look at your new religion's major competitors. In the U.S. the major denominations and religions are: Southern Baptists; Evangelical Lutheran Church; United Methodist Church; United Church of Christ; Roman Catholic; Latter-Day Saints; Judaism; and Islam. Fortunately, your new religion will usually be able to tackle them separately but there are regions where they might be taking on two at a time. You need to assess what each of those denominations' appeal to their own base is and then figure out how they're going to outcompete that denomination for their own followers. As a secondary part of that strategy, they need to figure out how to keep their opponents from putting up a united front against them, or how to drive a wedge between them if they are already united in their opposition.

After that, you need to figure how they're going to subvert American symbols, such as the Statue of Liberty and Mount Rushmore to their purposes, or are they simply going to destroy those things as "works promoting a false faith."

This is probably going to be a religion that gets very little purchase outside the U.S., so one thing you could do to help your dystopia along is play up the almost complete absence of tourists, the cession of immigration and the outward flow of ethnic minorities trying to escape back to the safety of home.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Lameth

I want this to be the religious version of the nazi party...a slow build and then before you know it they are your overlords. Thoughts? My US is already messed up due do major city riots five years back, high unimployment, meat and milk is high still due to a major disease that killed many cows three years ago, and a major fallen city in Idaho due to a nuclear incident and have become a place of the dregs of the world.

The most basic problem here is the US is religiously diverse. The Nazis can take power because in most of the population agreed with most of their goals and philosophies - they were after all democratically elected. It might work better in a place that is more religiously homogenous, but a single faith is not going to take over in the US without a long and messy civil war. Religious tolerance isn't an outgrowth of philosophical good, it's a compromise after a few centuries of bloody religious wars.

It's a perfectly good cinematic plot but trying too hard to build a plausible mechanism for a faith that actually demands something from the populace to take over is not going to work well. I recommend making it a totally new faith, that way you can push the weirdness mostly to "lots of people converted to this first" rather than "lots of people were OK with some other faith being in charge". Of course this means the new revelation is actually popular, and the PCs resisting it really are in some senses villains who will not receive passive public support.

With more time, you might be able to install dictators from a faith that doesn't particularly demand things - winning the support of the large fraction of the population that doesn't actually care very much about religion one way or the other - and then have them or their heirs become more concerned with doctrine over time, but that doesn't give you the sudden religious oppression you seem to be looking for.

[johndallman]

Fiction that might provide inspiration:

Heinlein's novella "If This Goes On—," Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy and Mick Farren's novel Armageddon Crazy.

[Donny Brook]

The history of Christianity taking over the Roman Empire might be instructive, you'd just have to telescope it by a few hundred years. Some things that might help lead to your outcome:

-Some malaise or scandal or situation that makes eisting religions unappealing or inhibited.

-World events that could suggest the new religion has an actual path to truth and/or divine favour.

-Celebrity endorsements and rapid uptake among power elites.

[robkelk]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Fiction that might provide inspiration:

Heinlein's novella "If This Goes On—," Phillip Pullman's His Dark Materials trilogy and Mick Farren's novel Armageddon Crazy.

See also Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale, or the TV adaptation currently being streamed on Hulu.

[Refplace]

As said they need to build a popular base.
Declaring that God has abandoned the people and that is why so many bad things have happened is one possibility.
People like to blame others for things.
Using the media and social media to attack other religions based on real and fake scandals can both raise general discontent, distract from the true threat and lure followers to the new hope.
If they can perform miracles or something no one else can do that will also lure followers.

[Lameth]

Originally Posted by malloyd

The most basic problem here is the US is religiously diverse. The Nazis can take power because in most of the population agreed with most of their goals and philosophies - they were after all democratically elected. It might work better in a place that is more religiously homogenous, but a single faith is not going to take over in the US without a long and messy civil war. Religious tolerance isn't an outgrowth of philosophical good, it's a compromise after a few centuries of bloody religious wars.

It's a perfectly good cinematic plot but trying too hard to build a plausible mechanism for a faith that actually demands something from the populace to take over is not going to work well. I recommend making it a totally new faith, that way you can push the weirdness mostly to "lots of people converted to this first" rather than "lots of people were OK with some other faith being in charge". Of course this means the new revelation is actually popular, and the PCs resisting it really are in some senses villains who will not receive passive public support.

With more time, you might be able to install dictators from a faith that doesn't particularly demand things - winning the support of the large fraction of the population that doesn't actually care very much about religion one way or the other - and then have them or their heirs become more concerned with doctrine over time, but that doesn't give you the sudden religious oppression you seem to be looking for.

Yes! This was my second idea. A new faith with hard ideas based around I new concept. In the back of my head I was thinkin about about making it based on a Philosophy instead and in secret have it linked to Things that Should Not Be at the very high up. So a concept of religion is not needed, all evils in the world is because your god is long dead/left/or uncaring, only the strong survive, remove the weak of body and mind, power and money is good, serve the faith and these things will be yours, etc. I was thinking of something like Church of Stone, or the Gathering, or something

[smurf]

Traditionally there is a material base for religion.

Cow provide fuel, milk etc =:sacred

Centalised subordination to a single figure head = Abrahamic religions

Nature worship or sun worship = early paganistic religons

To create one what is the central theme and how did it come about?

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by smurf

Traditionally there is a material base for religion.

Cow provide fuel, milk etc =:sacred

Centalised subordination to a single figure head = Abrahamic religions

Nature worship or sun worship = early paganistic religons

To create one what is the central theme and how did it come about?

Ignoring the flamable first line, yes there is much truth to that. Metaphor and ritual often come from substances(or concepts) that are easily idealized. One has to do it with style.

What do people on a desert planet with sand monsters do? They venerate water, make sacred knives out of sand monster teeth, and say God made their planet as a giant boot camp because He couldn't possibly have any motive for making such a miserable place. Then say such things with style and poetry.