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Old 09-14-2020, 08:24 PM   #91
trooper6
 
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Default Re: Has COVID hit your gaming?

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Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
I mean GURPS is a fairly complex system and it sounds nearly impossible to build a sheet where you can build (say) Innate Attacks without having to type them in. But secondary characteristics and made quickly (including now thrust and swing), combat effects can be attached to skills and whatnot, points are totaled up, etc. With something like D&D and its absurdly complicated but exact spells being able to have them in the character sheet already is super nice. I guess, what does the sheet not do that other system's sheets do? Maybe I just haven't seen it done well.
Standard GURPS is not *that* complex...especially if you aren't you using lots of powers...it just has a lot of options...like DnD has lots of spell options. Because SJGames doesn't support the VTT, they don't allow the VTT character sheets to have any information. So can't have any drop down menus with skills or advantages or disadvantages, etc. You have to hand enter in all of that yourself. Call of Cthulhu and Dungeons and Dragons not only have all the data in the character sheet, but they also have charactermancers to help guide you through making your character. So you can click on spells and click the ones you want and all the relevant data is loaded into your character sheet. D&D and Call of Cthulhu also allow you to buy (from the publisher) a compendium so from within the VTT you could, for example, look up what the abilities mean, etc. You have a reference right there in the VTT.

Because SJGames doesn't want the data anywhere...If I want to make a GURPS character in Roll20, I have to look up all the data in my book and then hand enter in each skill, advantage, and disadvantage and the relevant info. It takes a lot of time for stuff that is just the typing part...not even the choice making part, or deciding how to make an Innate attack part...just data entry. The Roll20 D&D sheet doesn't to that at all, in contrast. I can make up 5 level D&D character pretty quickly. And if I have purchased the special compendiums (which gives the publisher money) then I can look up all the references. And I don't have to type in too much by hand. And I can make characters all day. Now...with GURPS? For every character I have to type in each skill and its data for every single character every time.

I want to do an arena game with people who've never played GURPS at all. But the Roll20 sheet is not newbie friendly. Either I spend hours eating in all that info myself as the GM and then giving them the pre-gens..or...they do it...but why would they spend hours on data entry when they could just play Call of Chtulhu, or Shadowrun or D&D or Blades in the Dark, or any number of other RPGs that have full support in Roll20? The ones that make making characters easy...and making multiple characters easy.

To be honest, if I were to run a GURPS game in Roll20...I would be so much faster for me to use GURPS Character Sheet program. But then nothing is integrated into the VTT.

There are so many sheets that are amazing to play with. D&D has an impressive character sheet, Call of Cthulhu's is nice. A lot of the sheets are just way, way more functional. And this is not the fault of the people who are maintaining that Roll20 sheet. They have made it a much nicer sheet that it was two years ago. The problem is that they are not allowed to include the things in the sheet what would make it more useful.

A GURPS sheet with a charactermancer and with an integrated compendium in the marketplace that would generate income for SJGames and well as making it easier to make characters would go a long way to help me recruit new GURPS players.
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Old 09-14-2020, 09:57 PM   #92
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Default Re: Has COVID hit your gaming?

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they don't allow the VTT character sheets to have any information
Ah, that makes sense. That would be very nice. Maybe I just generally run things more complicated, I rarely bother putting in information into the sheet that would be in the books because of how often that info would have to be looked up. For instance, there is a ton of stuff about how combat works at all, there's a ton of stuff of how certain advantages work, how influence skills work, side things certain advantages can do, etc.

I can see how that isn't newbie friendly. But then, I also haven't found a roleplaying system that is without being overly simplistic. Still, I totally get where you are coming from now.
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While I do not think that GURPS is perfect I do think that it is more balanced than what I am likely to create by GM fiat.
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Old 09-14-2020, 11:02 PM   #93
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Default Re: Has COVID hit your gaming?

A lot of trooper6's reasons are why I went with Tabletop Simulator instead of Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds. If I was going to have to do it all myself, why waste my time with something that's only somewhat effective. I'd rather have the 3d elements as that's more fun than the top-down, token view.

I can print a character sheet from GCA as PDF and load that PDF directly into TTS, so it can be referenced by players with only one monitor. I can buy an STL of a figure from Hero Forge for a character, import it into Unity, then export an Assetbundle that I can import into TTS. I'm dipping my toes into the scripting tools for TTS (I've already made some tick-box versions of BattleTech record sheets).
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Old 09-15-2020, 12:02 AM   #94
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Default Re: Has COVID hit your gaming?

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I can see how that isn't newbie friendly. But then, I also haven't found a roleplaying system that is without being overly simplistic. Still, I totally get where you are coming from now.
I think what is frustrating for me is that I have had a lot of success introducing newbies to GURPS and making GURPS not feel too complicated. And I want to introduce more people to GURPS. I want more be able to stream it in a way that will look enticing to people who have never seen it before. I want GURPS to do better. Shadowrun and Cyberpunk which are also crunchier games have hit #5 in sales recently. If they can be successful, GURPS can, too.

Whenever I mention GURPS I often get people saying: "Oh GURPS? That is that game that is super complicated, right? The one where you have to do square roots to play it? The one that that isn't even really an RPG, right? It is just a toolkit not even a real RPG?" And they have never even played it. They don't really know anything about it. They've just heard that ti was too complicated and should be avoided. But GURPS is not that complicated. It is not more complicated that a number of games that people are playing right now. I want to show them that GURPS is a fun game that does some very cool things. That it is not as byzantine as people have heard in the stereotype....and if we are doing this online rather than in person, I need VTT support that is on par with its contemporaries like Call of Cthulhu or Runequest and I need it not be a hinderance in getting more people into GURPS. I mean, more people play Das Schwarze Auge on Roll20 that people play GURPS on Roll20
...more people play AD&D 1e on Roll20 than play GURPS. It is hard to do bring in new people with the support we currently have. And I want to bring in new people. I have some cool ideas for streams...but...I need the situation to be better to I can be most successful and bringing in new people.
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Old 09-15-2020, 07:43 AM   #95
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Default Re: Has COVID hit your gaming?

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I need VTT support that is on par with its contemporaries like Call of Cthulhu or Runequest and I need it not be a hinderance in getting more people into GURPS. I mean, more people play Das Schwarze Auge on Roll20 that people play GURPS on Roll20
...more people play AD&D 1e on Roll20 than play GURPS. It is hard to do bring in new people with the support we currently have. And I want to bring in new people. I have some cool ideas for streams...but...I need the situation to be better to I can be most successful and bringing in new people.
Very much agreed.

I've been doing my best to introduce people to GURPS on FG, and when you compare the ease of interface with supported games, part of the frustration sits with the lack of support for a professionally polished product.

To be able to simply work within the VTT framework would be much easier in all segments of game play.
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Old 09-15-2020, 08:14 AM   #96
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Default Re: Has COVID hit your gaming?

Please bring the discussion back to gaming and COVID specifically. If you want to discuss broader issues, start a new thread. Thanks.
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Old 10-13-2020, 01:00 PM   #97
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Default Re: Has COVID hit your gaming?

My in-person DF game has been sputtering since the lockdowns began. We have used Roll20, which isn't bad (and does have its advantages), but it just isn't the same. One of the worst things about it is that, whereas players at the table would watch, talk, joke, drink, eat, or otherwise make merry, when it is online, there is a tendency for them to wander off, play a second game, etc. I've heard this from others in different games.

This is a very different experience than my VTT-exclusive Space Opera game. That one works well and continues to do so.
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Old 10-16-2020, 12:37 AM   #98
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Default Re: Has COVID hit your gaming?

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My in-person DF game has been sputtering since the lockdowns began. We have used Roll20, which isn't bad (and does have its advantages), but it just isn't the same. One of the worst things about it is that, whereas players at the table would watch, talk, joke, drink, eat, or otherwise make merry, when it is online, there is a tendency for them to wander off, play a second game, etc. I've heard this from others in different games.

This is a very different experience than my VTT-exclusive Space Opera game. That one works well and continues to do so.
Any particular reason why the Space Opera game works well in a VTT environment?

I am not a big fan of seeing the faces of the other players in VTT. I feel like I focus better hearing their voices only. And maybe less is more: less graphic imagery, more player imagination? I've intentionally written more narrative for players to read so as to keep their focus as well.

All a grand experiment.
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