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Old 11-12-2017, 09:13 PM   #41
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Defense bonus and ATR

You do not even need superhuman capabilities to have a great dodge. With 500 points, you can purchase DX 20, HT 20, Basic Speed 12.00, and Combat Reflexes. You have a Dodge 16 and you are still technically normal, just a heroic normal (or supernormal).
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Old 11-12-2017, 09:23 PM   #42
Flyndaran
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Default Re: Defense bonus and ATR

Yeah, I'd say that when you significantly out perform Batman, you've gone quite beyond human.
Those stats look more like Captain America than anything human.
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Old 11-12-2017, 09:54 PM   #43
mr beer
 
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Default Re: Defense bonus and ATR

By RAW they are human 'normal'*, a real world analogue would be superhuman in the sense of grossly outperforming anyone in the history of the world in any and every athletic endeavour, 'athletic' here being used in a broad sense.

* By stat caps but 500 points is already superhuman I think.

Last edited by mr beer; 11-12-2017 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 11-12-2017, 10:29 PM   #44
evileeyore
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Default Re: Defense bonus and ATR

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
In truth, it is a hybrid of Compartmentalized Mind and Extra Attack, with an increase in Basic Move added in.
You've got that backwards. ATR came first, the others were developed as "lesser" versions.
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Old 11-13-2017, 08:00 AM   #45
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Defense bonus and ATR

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Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
The speedster who "sees the pathetically slow attack coming and steps easily aside" has ETS and Enhanced Dodge (or just extremely high Basic Speed for a good base Dodge score), in addition to ATR. Altered Time Rate on its own is pretty unrealistic... any being who has that ability should have other related abilities.
Yes. ATR is a building block for concepts, but not a complete standalone "power". As such, it's particularly futile to try to play the "what can I 'logically' do with my power" extrapolation to munchkinize it, but instead it's a good candidate for the "just what the mechanics say" mindset.

ATR should probably just be called "Extra Maneuver". It's not "the speedster power", but only part of that package.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:04 AM   #46
Gnome
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cambridge, MA
Default Re: Defense bonus and ATR

I would take a look at the Speedster template from Supers. There's nothing "realistic" about it, but at least the levels of ability offered there are meant to play nicely together in the kind of game where these kinds of crazy abilities are available.

In the one supers game my group tried to play, by the way, the Speedster seemed ridiculously overpowered compared to characters built on the other 500-pt templates. But that's not because the amount of improved BS was too high relative to the level of ATR, but rather because ATR, Extra Attack and Striking ST work really well together, especially when attached to a guy who's almost impossible to hit.
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Old 11-13-2017, 01:39 PM   #47
Eidoloclast
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Default Re: Defense bonus and ATR

If Evaluate provided a Defense bonus (or could be claimed for a 1-turn bonus to defenses instead of a bonus to an attack) then by taking 3 evaluate maneuvers before the all-out defense a speedster could get another +3 defense, which seems pretty reasonable to me.
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Old 11-24-2017, 03:23 PM   #48
JazzJedi
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Default Re: Defense bonus and ATR

ATR is the most underrated power in the Basic Set and should realistically come a lot of extra bonuses and advantages. The advantage in combat of having twice the reaction speed, twice the physical speed, should be overwhelming to normal people - who would move like slow zombies by comparison with even AT1-2.

I also think that for realism, AT would give higher DX, ST, extra Striking ST, and some damage resistance. The ability for muscles to move a character 2x faster means muscles must be much stronger, bones must be stronger, etc. Muscle-powered strikes would also be much faster than most strong characters, giving extra Striking ST. Also, powerful muscles would give some DR (Thick Skin, or Crush Only).

A character with AT4 (moves 5x faster than a normal person) should be able to punch 5x harder than a normal character (or 25x harder if you use Kinetic Energy as the measure of punching power rather than momentum).

In my super campaign, each level of AT includes Enhanced Defenses +1, +2 ST, +3 Striking ST, +1 DX, and +2 DR (Thick Skin, -40%). For living creatures, one level of Increased Consumption per level of AT is appropriate.

Anyway, I could go on and on. AT is powerful!
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Old 11-25-2017, 08:22 AM   #49
Rupert
 
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Default Re: Defense bonus and ATR

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Originally Posted by JazzJedi View Post
In my super campaign, each level of AT includes Enhanced Defenses +1, +2 ST, +3 Striking ST, +1 DX, and +2 DR (Thick Skin, -40%). For living creatures, one level of Increased Consumption per level of AT is appropriate.
I really hope you make people pay for these.
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Old 11-25-2017, 08:37 AM   #50
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Defense bonus and ATR

I agree. Otherwise, they are getting 81 points of traits (91 if unliving) for free.
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