[Spaceships] Question about hull damage

[ToeFinger]

How do you handle penetrating damage to spaceships? The rules about damage to hull sections leave me somewhat confused.

The rules mention that any damage over 50% of dHP will destory the system that was hit by the attack. In addition, one random system in that hull section will "suffer a damage result". How do you calculate this damage result? Do you roll damage again for the new system, or do you use leftover damage above the 50% required to destroy the first system? Does this process repeat when the damage was high enough to destroy the second system, or does the attack overpenetrate? Perhaps "suffer a damage result" mean that the second system is automatically disabled or destroyed. Can someone that have used the rules from Spaceships explain how hull damage is supposed to work.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by ToeFinger

Perhaps "suffer a damage result" mean that the second system is automatically disabled or destroyed.

I believe that's what it's supposed to mean.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by ToeFinger

do you use leftover damage above the 50% required to destroy the first system? Does this process repeat when the damage was high enough to destroy the second system, or does the attack overpenetrate?

This is how I run it. Generally, I only allow two systems to be destroyed in this manner. That is: if I do 51% HP damage, then one system is destroyed and the next takes that remaining 1% of damage (which is basically irrelevant: If you had 100 HP, you now have 49 HP and one destroyed system). If you deal 101% HP damage, then you have two destroyed systems and I would guess two big holes on your ship, one entry wound and one exit wound.

I'm interested in knowing if there is a canonical answer, though.

[jacobmuller]

I've always treated it as a hit can either kill the vessel or knock out 1 or 2 of its systems.

If the penetrating damage isn't enough to destroy the vessel, individual systems are either disabled or destroyed.

If damage is less than 10% undamaged dHP, no special effect, just tally the damage vs current dHP.

If damage is between 10% and 50%, a system is disabled.

If damage is >50%, a system is destroyed and another in that section is disabled.

Two disables are a destroyed; you can't further disable a destroyed system. If the damage required a secondary disable and all that section was already destroyed, I'd go on to randomly choose a system from the next section.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

This is how I run it. Generally, I only allow two systems to be destroyed in this manner. .

In the playtest battles, when you had truly massive damage characteristi9c of high velocity KE strikes or nuclear explosions my memory is that yo97u kept walking the damage until there was no longer enough to spill over.

So 20x the required damage to destroy 1 section destroyed 20 sections. nuclear explosions don't leave entry or exit wounds.

[ToeFinger]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

This is how I run it. Generally, I only allow two systems to be destroyed in this manner. That is: if I do 51% HP damage, then one system is destroyed and the next takes that remaining 1% of damage (which is basically irrelevant: If you had 100 HP, you now have 49 HP and one destroyed system). If you deal 101% HP damage, then you have two destroyed systems and I would guess two big holes on your ship, one entry wound and one exit wound.

This is how I was thinking of running it myself, but I would perhaps allow hits coming straight from the front/rear facing to overpenetrate into the next hull section. This should probably require a second skill roll with a flat 9 or the actual number to hit on purpose. This would allow some lucky hits from powerful weapons to pierce straight through an enemy ship taking out up to six systems before overpenetrating. Nuclear attacks would obviously not be limited in how many systems they can destroy.

But would you allow an attack to cause further HP damage after overpenetration was confirmed?

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

I've always treated it as a hit can either kill the vessel or knock out 1 or 2 of its systems.

If damage is >50%, a system is destroyed and another in that section is disabled.

This would also work great, especially if you want to make spaceship combat last longer and emergency repairs crucial to success.

Are there any house rules anyone of you use to limit the devastating amounts of damage caused in spaceship combat? I am thinking of using Armor and Volume, Armor by Facing, Keeping Large Vehicles Alive (treating all non-nuclear attacks as huge piercing) and Taming Explosions (Pyramid #3/34). Treating all laminate armor and nanocomposite as hardened or double DR against shaped-charge warheads would also help (Pyramid #3/40).

[jacobmuller]

I use all those Pyramid updates plus the one that bases energy beams off square-roots as opposed to the RAW cube-root; IDHMNWM so not sure which issue it's in.

I also use a suggestion from the authors that AFVs are 70% armor... This means combat "ships" in my setting are very tough.
Ships are still one-shot killed by bigger ships but in an even fight it's more like three hits. Makes it a bit more NFL than FIFA.

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

I use all those Pyramid updates plus the one that bases energy beams off square-roots as opposed to the RAW cube-root; IDHMNWM so not sure which issue it's in.

"Square Root of Destruction," Alternate Spaceships, Pyramid #3/34, page 9. Note if your objective is to improve survivability, this is generally a bad idea, because it makes beam weapons a good deal more powerful.

Originally Posted by jacobmuller

I also use a suggestion from the authors that AFVs are 70% armor... This means combat "ships" in my setting are very tough.

Indeed. If going with this, it may be worthwhile to make use of "Smaller Systems" (Spaceships 7, pages 4-5) so that your vessel has more than 4 non-armor hull systems. While you've set your fighter as, say, SM+7, you can use the volume reduction of heavy armor and the Smaller Systems rules to have it function essentially as a really well-armored SM+6 fighter instead.

[jacobmuller]

Originally Posted by Varyon

"Square Root of Destruction," Alternate Spaceships, Pyramid #3/34, page 9. Note if your objective is to improve survivability, this is generally a bad idea, because it makes beam weapons a good deal more powerful.

Thank you.
It brings beams more into line with missiles.

[ToeFinger]

Originally Posted by Varyon

While you've set your fighter as, say, SM+7, you can use the volume reduction of heavy armor and the Smaller Systems rules to have it function essentially as a really well-armored SM+6 fighter instead.

That's a good idea that I had not considered before. This would fix survivability issues by increasing armor at the expense of somewhat reduced firepower.

There was another thing about hull damage that I was also thinking about. What happens when all the systems in the central hull section are destroyed? Does this leave the front and rear section cut off from each other? Would the front and rear hull be able to use systems located in the opposite hull section, transferring power points through a central hull section held together by duct tape?