|
11-19-2022, 10:26 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Jul 2021
|
Song of Command & instruments
In Adventurers p. 17, the Speaking from Experience quotes Jag as saying roughly he can us Song of Command instead of mind control spells, as it is better since it doesn't exhaust him or require gestures and incantations. He says all thats needed is a "few casual notes" from his tin whistle!
Question: How is that possible? Song of Command, p 18 says victory means victim obeys verbal commands in any language he knows as long as you play without interruption. How do you play a tin whistle and give verbal commands. Song of Command seems incompatible with Jags bardic instrument of choice! Can you speak while playing a tin whistle? BTW, does Song of Command allow giving orders to an entire group at once? To me it seems RAW don't allow this. Now if the do, then I need to re-evaluate my view on Bards being relatively weak and problematic to play. Note: Song of Terror seems to be problematic as it impacts your party members also unless they're deaf, wear earplugs or all have Unfazeable advantage. I guess high levels of Fearlessness works too. |
11-19-2022, 03:58 PM | #2 | |||
Join Date: Jan 2008
|
Re: Song of Command & instruments
Quote:
I would say no, Jag cannot do what he claims to be able to do. He must sing. Quote:
Quote:
It's possible that Resist Sound might also work against Song of Terror--check with your GM. Pro tip: an elven bard can learn Concussion, and if you precast Resist Sound on everybody in the party then Concussion becomes a fantastic spell, not just for the Bard but for any Wizards in the party too. This nicely covers a Bardic weakness, namely the issue of what to do in a dungeon crawl when fighting Unfazeable monsters immune to mind control? Hurling AoE grenades for HT-3 stun that friendlies are immune to is one great answer; to a lesser extent casting strategic Magery 0 spells like Haste and Darkness is also a good use of time. (Wading into melee or firing a bow is also an option against weak foes but it's nice to have better options.) Note also that Bardic Songs do not take penalties from spells "on", so in some ways bards are even better at buffing than wizards and clerics are. Even with six or seven spells on and effective spell skill of only 9, a bard can still Mind Control or Rapier Wit at full skill, whereas a wizard's Charm spell would be very anemic at skill 9. Last edited by sjmdw45; 11-19-2022 at 05:17 PM. |
|||
11-20-2022, 10:13 AM | #3 | ||||
Join Date: Jul 2021
|
Re: Song of Command & instruments
Quote:
I'd also love to see magic users that can spell cast using dance. I'd want to fit them under the Bard template. Quote:
Personally, I'd prefer being able to act on an entire group. Say there are 10 enemies, you chose to target 5 of them to limit the negative modifiers. You go into Song of Command and order them to "drop your weapons". So the Bard is at -5 (-1 for each targeted enemy). Any of them that fail the quick contest will drop their weapons. Bardic Talent provides a bonus to the Bard. RAW seems to indicate you could only order on person and then one other each turn with cumulative -1 for each person still under control. So if you ordered " drop your weapon and leave it on the ground" that could be done one at a time. Quote:
It's possible that Resist Sound might also work against Song of Terror--check with your GM. Quote:
Note also that Bardic Songs do not take penalties from spells "on", so in some ways bards are even better at buffing than wizards and clerics are. Even with six or seven spells on and effective spell skill of only 9, a bard can still Mind Control or Rapier Wit at full skill, whereas a wizard's Charm spell would be very anemic at skill 9.[/QUOTE] Noted. |
||||
11-20-2022, 10:53 AM | #4 | |||||
Join Date: Jan 2008
|
Re: Song of Command & instruments
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Basically there's no point in using Concussion for damage except maybe against Diffuse foes like toxifiers. It's mostly a stunning spell. |
|||||
11-20-2022, 12:37 PM | #5 | ||||
Join Date: Jul 2021
|
Re: Song of Command & instruments
Quote:
Quote:
Again it would be much better if this were an AoE capability that could be used simultaneously on multiple targets to start. Quote:
Quote:
|
||||
11-20-2022, 02:19 PM | #6 | |
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: L.I., NY
|
Re: Song of Command & instruments
Quote:
|
|
11-21-2022, 07:53 AM | #7 | ||||
Join Date: Jan 2008
|
Re: Song of Command & instruments
Quote:
Quote:
Edit: or you could take control of the guy you want arrested and make him wait patiently until the guards arrest him. Quote:
Quote:
Then Fear says Prerequisites: Wizardly: Sense Emotion. Then Sense Emotion says Prerequisites: Wizardly: Sense Foes. Then Sense Foes says Prerequisites: Wizardly: Magery 0 or Bardic Talent. Where do you see Magery 1? P.S. Also, from Spells page 7: “Bardic” Spells Bards cast wizardly spells. For the most part, these work normally: • Prerequisite spells are unchanged. • Energy Reserve (Magical) can be tapped for energy. • Mana is required to cast, and has its usual effects. There are a few differences, though: • Bardic Talent (Adventurers, p. 17) replaces Magery. The same level is needed as a prerequisite, and it gives a permanent bonus to spells, but it can’t sense magic items or mana levels. • Bards are limited to the Communication and Empathy, Knowledge, Mind Control, and Sound colleges. • Bards must sing to cast, even from scrolls. Last edited by sjmdw45; 11-21-2022 at 09:10 AM. |
||||
11-26-2022, 07:48 PM | #8 | |
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Saint Paul, MN
|
Re: Song of Command & instruments
Quote:
|
|
11-26-2022, 10:17 PM | #9 |
Join Date: Jan 2008
|
Re: Song of Command & instruments
Another potential synergy: Song of Command + Song of the Wild might allow you to mind-control animals, since "Victory means your victim obeys your verbal commands in any language he knows for as long as you play without interruption" and "You can make your song understood to animals, who may answer you back in song of their own". It would not be unreasonable for this to work.
On the other hand, it does step on the druid's toes a little bit, and a DM could argue that understanding the meaning of your song and understanding a language are not the same thing. Personally I think the overlap is not a problem (after all, Swashbuckler Rapier Wit overlaps a bit with Song of Humiliation too), and that understanding the bard's intent is the key factor, which Song of the Wild clearly allows you to do. As GM I would allow that combo. |
11-27-2022, 06:51 PM | #10 | |
Join Date: Jul 2021
|
Re: Song of Command & instruments
Quote:
EDIT: Even if this isn't necessarily RAW, I like it. This will allow a Bard to communicate and control animals, though it takes time and effort. I'm also in favor of "multi-professions" so it would be good to have a Druid/Bard. I really think it would be cool to have Druid/Bard "pied-piper" Control swarms of rats or bats. Use Druid abilities to locate animals and use animal handling capabilties. Last edited by restlessgriffin; 12-03-2022 at 11:28 AM. |
|
|
|