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Old 08-06-2020, 07:18 AM   #11
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: Is Altered Time Rate the only way to go for an archer?

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Originally Posted by Edeldhur View Post
Ok got it! So that means 1 roll at -1 and what would be the normal shooting penalties to add on the actual shot?
Example: Robin wants to shoot Little John (SM+0 human) during the day (no vision penalties) at a range of 10 yards (-4) in back to back turns to show off. Fortunately he has a bow skill of 20, FD (Arrow) with the perk so that he doesn't need to roll, WM (Bow), and Heroic Archer.

He fast draws the arrow (perk), nocks the bow (roll vs Bow at a -1), then rolls at Bow at -5 to his (-1 for quickshot, -4 for range, and no other penalties) each turn.

Of course, that wasn't so impressive. Next attempt is later in the day when it's a bit darker (-2 lighting) and he's trying to hit an inner ring on a target (-4 to hit) at a range of 20 yards (-6) with quickshooting. He autopasses fast draw (perk), makes a Bow at -1 to draw, but actually making that shot will require a Bow at -13 (-1 quickshooting, -4 for SM, -2 lighting, and -6 for range).
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Old 08-06-2020, 07:22 AM   #12
Edeldhur
 
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Default Re: Is Altered Time Rate the only way to go for an archer?

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Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
Staying with the bow skill, you can use extra-attack (require Quick-Shooting and fast-drawing ! - and multi-strike on the extra-attack)

Extra-attack(multi-strike +20%, single skill-20%) [25]

Add Enhanced Tracking (Multiple Lock-Ons, +20%) [6/additionnal target] to get the aiming bonus for each shot.

DF11 have a technique to get rid of the quickshot penalty (cost [3] )

Going outside common archery :

*Imbuements would allow you to (among other things) supernaturally split your projectile(s) in midair, increasing RoF. - Not exactly the same as multiple attacks however.

*Another option of creating a super archer is to use an innate attack that require a bow and the bow skill. That's the best way to emulate tricks arrows.
Imbuements were my first choice for this character - I really like the system, the feel and the versatility. In all honesty, that would still be how I would play this archer, but when I started counting the amount of dice rolls I needed every time I wanted to fire an arrow... I felt discouraged.

Also I am sure the innate attack option works wonderfully, because you can use stuff like Armor Divisor and stuff along those lines. Also it is probably easier to manage than actually doing things with the bow skill. This is a path I did not take because (like I said many times before :D) my system mastery is not very good. Might be worth converting it all though, dropping Weapon Master, Heroic Master, etc. I just wanted that classic old school feel of having my preferred bow, etc. Instead of an Innate Attack saying 'only usable with a(ny) bow' kinda thing.

I like the Extra Attack option like you presented for the two shots in a round - will take it up to my GM, even if it will still be some time until I have the points for it ;)
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Old 08-06-2020, 07:23 AM   #13
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: Is Altered Time Rate the only way to go for an archer?

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Originally Posted by Celjabba View Post
MA p 103 allow several fast drawn at a cumulative penalty (penalty reduced by WM and HA).
Yes, but for bows that is to do the Dual Weapon Attack (Bow) where you first multiple arrows at a time rather than multiple arrows sequentially.

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Also, with the akimbo perk, you could make one FD per turn per hand without penalty.
I'm trying to visualize how that would work with a bow in your hand.
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Old 08-06-2020, 07:24 AM   #14
Edeldhur
 
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Default Re: Is Altered Time Rate the only way to go for an archer?

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
Example: Robin wants to shoot Little John (SM+0 human) during the day (no vision penalties) at a range of 10 yards (-4) in back to back turns to show off. Fortunately he has a bow skill of 20, FD (Arrow) with the perk so that he doesn't need to roll, WM (Bow), and Heroic Archer.

He fast draws the arrow (perk), nocks the bow (roll vs Bow at a -1), then rolls at Bow at -5 to his (-1 for quickshot, -4 for range, and no other penalties) each turn.

Of course, that wasn't so impressive. Next attempt is later in the day when it's a bit darker (-2 lighting) and he's trying to hit an inner ring on a target (-4 to hit) at a range of 20 yards (-6) with quickshooting. He autopasses fast draw (perk), makes a Bow at -1 to draw, but actually making that shot will require a Bow at -13 (-1 quickshooting, -4 for SM, -2 lighting, and -6 for range).
I hadn't explained myself correctly before - when I said the penalty to both rolls was -1/-1 I meant from the 'shooting an arrow per round process' (apart from remaining additional modifiers). So got it again naloth, thank you for clarifying ;)
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Old 08-06-2020, 07:28 AM   #15
naloth
 
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Default Re: Is Altered Time Rate the only way to go for an archer?

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Originally Posted by Edeldhur View Post
I hadn't explained myself correctly before - when I said the penalty to both rolls was -1/-1 I meant from the 'shooting an arrow per round process' (apart from remaining additional modifiers). So got it again naloth, thank you for clarifying ;)
NP, I don't explain myself well quite often.

For another idea on what you can do, here's an alternative idea for an archer I created that can either shoot people or stun people quite well:

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...0&postcount=10
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Old 08-06-2020, 07:38 AM   #16
Edeldhur
 
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Default Re: Is Altered Time Rate the only way to go for an archer?

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Originally Posted by naloth View Post
NP, I don't explain myself well quite often.

For another idea on what you can do, here's an alternative idea for an archer I created that can either shoot people or stun people quite well:

http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...0&postcount=10
Wow, that seems pretty deadly (I mean assuming once they are knocked out, blind and stun :D) - I had no idea you could use pressure points with a ranged weapon.

My only fear of focusing so hard on a certain 'technique' is to become a one trick-pony... That is why I liked Imbuements so much, but I think in this game it might make sense to go another path.

My GM is using Sorcery, and I have already purchased some powers through that (I have Sorcery 3 atm + some alternative powers at 1/5 the cost). So maybe I should invest more on this path and find other powers which I can use through the bow. For example as an alternative to the ATR, perhaps an innate attack which only works through the bow, and fires two 'arrows'?

By the way, how much points would you say it costs to have ATR (only to shoot bows or something similar)?
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Old 08-06-2020, 07:40 AM   #17
Varyon
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Is Altered Time Rate the only way to go for an archer?

If you want to fire multiple arrows in a single turn, a canonical option is Dual Weapon Attack (Bow), which lets you load and fire two arrows at once. As per "Multiple Fast-Draws" (MA103), this is at -2 per weapon drawn at once, so -4 for two arrows - but I'd halve this for each of Heroic Archer and Weapon Master, for only -1. If you want to instead fire sequentially, in those same rules are guidelines for something similar, where you draw the first weapon at no penalty, the next at -4 (-1 with HA and WM), -8 (-2) for the next, and so forth. Using Rapid Strike with this should work. Arguably, the way fast-firing bows works is to have the character use Rapid Strike, but let one of the attacks instead serve as a Ready. Cribbing from this, you could fire 3 arrows in one round with a 6-attack Rapid Strike. For a character with no relevant Advantages, this would be an unmodified FD roll, a Bow roll at -30 to Ready the first arrow, a Bow roll at -30 (plus Range) to attack, FD-4, Bow-30, Bow-30, FD-8, Bow-30, Bow-30. With Heroic Archer and Weapon Master, this becomes FD, Bow-7, Bow-7, FD-1, Bow-7, Bow-7, FD-2, Bow-7, Bow-7.

Alternatively, you could go the Lars route, drawing a fistful of arrows and shooting them all sequentially. This would require a Fast-Draw roll at -2 per arrow, so you could draw 3 arrows with a single roll at -6 (-1 with HA and WM). I'd say the attacks are then at -2 per arrow, so the first would be at an additional -6 (-1 with HA and WM), the second at -4 (-1 with HA and WM), and the third at no penalty.

A final option, if you have a single bow (probably Signature Gear) that you rather like to use, is to use the rules for modifying weapons from PU4:10-11. In this case, work out what an Impaling Innate Attack with the damage of your weapon (including bonuses from Weapon Master and the like) would cost. To get rid of the need to Fast-Draw, replace Limited Use: 1/day (Fast Reload) -20%* with Consumes Arrow -5% (or even just buy it off entirely if you don't need to use ammo, but that certainly requires explicit GM permission). To get rid of the second to Ready, you can either assume there's a single level of Takes Extra Time -10% and buy that off, or buy Takes Less Time +20%; it's up to the GM which is appropriate (I'd lean toward the latter, personally). So, let's say your bow does 3d imp. That would cost [24] as an Innate Attack. The +15% to change Limited Use: 1/day (Fast Reload) to Consumes Arrow is worth [3.6]. The +10% to buy off Takes Extra Time is worth [2.4], while the +20% to buy Takes Less Time is worth [4.8]. This puts the ability to avoid any rolls and essentially use the bow as an RoF 1 weapon (albeit with the option of Rapid Strike) at between [6] and [9] ([8.4] rounded up). Note this only works with one weapon - if you pick up some random other bow, your ability to avoid the need for taking time to draw an arrow and ready the bow don't apply.

*Technically, this is supposed to take 3-5 seconds, but I think 1 second if you have a single use is fair. If you disagree, change the Limitation to -15%.
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Old 08-06-2020, 07:53 AM   #18
naloth
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Default Re: Is Altered Time Rate the only way to go for an archer?

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Originally Posted by Edeldhur View Post
My only fear of focusing so hard on a certain 'technique' is to become a one trick-pony... That is why I liked Imbuements so much, but I think in this game it might make sense to go another path.
It was to show off that trick, but if you have the points add ST 14 [40], Arm ST+3 [15], and a melee weapon both increase your base arrow damage (ST 19 bow) and give you an impressive backup melee ability (ST17 with a weapon skill of your choice).

Quote:
My GM is using Sorcery, and I have already purchased some powers through that (I have Sorcery 3 atm + some alternative powers at 1/5 the cost). So maybe I should invest more on this path and find other powers which I can use through the bow. For example as an alternative to the ATR, perhaps an innate attack which only works through the bow, and fires two 'arrows'?
I haven't used Sorcery much, but you can have lots of fun with advantages.

Quote:
By the way, how much points would you say it costs to have ATR (only to shoot bows or something similar)?
Probably around -60%? It's gives you more flexibility than Extra Attack would.
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Old 08-06-2020, 07:57 AM   #19
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: Is Altered Time Rate the only way to go for an archer?

Honestly, it is probably better to design an Innate Attack. Impaling Attack 2d (Bow; Accessibility, Only while weilding a bow, -20%; Accuracy 10, +50%; Increased 1/2d Range, 10x, +15%; Increased Range 10x, +30%; Rapid Fire, 3, +50%) [36] would work, and I would allow Heroic Archer to work for it (though not Weapon Master).
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Old 08-06-2020, 08:32 AM   #20
Celjabba
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Luxembourg
Default Re: Is Altered Time Rate the only way to go for an archer?

for the "archery as power", this is interesting :

http://www.mygurps.com/pmwiki.php?n=...ngASuperArcher

For the "multiple attack per round with a bow" and ignoring realism :) :

Assuming:

Heroic Archer
Weaponmaster (Bow)
fast draw(arrow) - 16+
Extra-attack(multi-strike, bow only)
Enhanced Tracking (Multiple Lock-Ons, +20%) (allow the aiming bonus on several targets)
Bow - 20 (for example, exact value doesn't matter)
perk : akimbo (allow fast draw with the hand holding the bow, so 2 fast draw without penalty per turn)
perk : no nuisance roll(fast draw)
Perks: Unique Technique (Quick-Shooting) [1].
Techniques: Quick-Shooting (H) Bow+0 [2] (remove both -1 penalty for quick shooting)

Turn Sequence (assuming you are standing still) - (attack, move and attack, AOA determined)

-normal attack maneuver :
--ready arrow 1 (free action due to fast draw - no roll because perks)
--ready bow - roll under bow skill (free action if success) Roll at +1 if AOA determined). If failed, wait until next turn to fire / drop the bow (crit fail).
--if previous roll is succesfull, fire bow (apply all relevant penalties and bonus )

-extra attack maneuver - If you didn't fail at quickshot on arrow 1 (otherwise, your bow is unready)
--ready arrow 2 (free action due to fast draw - no roll because perks)
--ready bow - roll under bow skill (free action if success) Roll at +1 if AOA determined. If failed, wait until next turn to fire / drop the bow (crit fail).
--if previous roll is succesfull, fire bow (apply all relevant penalties and bonus)

-repeat as long as you have extra attack maneuvers, but there will be fast draw penalties after the 4th arrow (first and second are free by akimbo. third and fourth, -2 penalty divided by 4, round down : no penalty).


You can combine one of those attacks with DWA(s) to load and shot 2 arrows, as per Varyon post.

In addition, if you could convince your GM to also give you a no nuisance roll perk for the quickshot instant ready roll, it would also allow using an AOA double for an extra attack as your bow would functionally not require any ready manoeuver. But that require the GM allowing that perk ! That said, I doubt a GM would allow it. I wouldn't unless the player also have at least severla level of aspected luck(quickshot only)


Edit : you could also get rid of the "ready bow" turn by buying extra-ready [25]. But the quickshot way is much cheaper if you already have heroic archer and weapon master.

Last edited by Celjabba; 08-06-2020 at 08:55 AM.
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