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Old 07-04-2020, 10:17 AM   #31
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Different Liches [Magic/Horror]

Using the phylactory as a magical gadget is a valid way of having a Lich. In that case, I would modify the positive traits of the above 300 CP version with Amulet, Protected, -35% and Magical, -10% and give the disadvantage Mitigator, Constant, Rare, -50%, for a value of ~175 CP. In that case, the advantages and disadvantages of being a Lich only exist while wearing the phylactory.

A more nefarious version would have the phylactory inflict Dependency (Constant, Phylactory) [-150 CP] and Fragile (Unnaatural; Mitigator, Phylactory, Constant, Rare) [-25 CP] to a character when they attune to the phylactory, making the package into a 0 CP feature. Attunement would only require a character to wear the phylactory for a minute. If the phylactory is stolen or destroyed, they have (HP×2) minutes before they expire. That type of item would likely only be suitable as a cursed item though.
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Old 07-04-2020, 01:41 PM   #32
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Default Re: Different Liches [Magic/Horror]

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Originally Posted by maximara View Post
Possession expressly states "You can move your consciousness from body to body. (...) However, you cannot survive outside a living host." (sic) So per RAW undead cannot have Possession as either an advantage or an enhancement because their body is already dead. Effectively "dead body" is a forbidden trait for Possession.
Right, very good.

So, what if we created an inverse Possession, suitable for an undead splatbook, and made it so that an undead user could possess undead individuals or a corpses? What would be a fair point adjustment for that advantage?

Last edited by SolemnGolem; 07-04-2020 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 07-04-2020, 07:56 PM   #33
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Default Re: Different Liches [Magic/Horror]

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Originally Posted by SolemnGolem View Post
Right, very good.

So, what if we created an inverse Possession, suitable for an undead splatbook, and made it so that an undead user could possess undead individuals or a corpses? What would be a fair point adjustment for that advantage?
I might call it a +0% adjustment, personally. In any given setting where liches are known or suspected to exist, the number of corpses available in some form tends to even out with the number of living folks suitable for possession.
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Old 07-05-2020, 05:27 AM   #34
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Default Re: Different Liches [Magic/Horror]

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolemnGolem View Post
Right, very good.

So, what if we created an inverse Possession, suitable for an undead splatbook, and made it so that an undead user could possess undead individuals or a corpses? What would be a fair point adjustment for that advantage?
I might call it a +0% adjustment, personally. In any given setting where liches are known or suspected to exist, the number of corpses available in some form tends to even out with the number of living folks suitable for possession.
Considering Karla of Record of Lodoss War (which is a Dungeons & Dragons "replay") who is an "old-school lich whose phylactery is a head ornament" can take over living hosts you really don't need an inverse Possession for the undead when a modified version of reincarnation fits the bill.

Also Possession has one other issue:

*"To possess a new host, you must concentrate for one second and physically touch him." The D&D lich only needed a corpse to being in 60 foot radius of its phylactery. So you are going to have to throw in the Ranged enhancement

Both Possession and Reincarnation have these issues:

*"You gain your new host’s ST, DX, and HT (and secondary characteristics calculated from these scores), as well as his physical advantages and disadvantages." (yes reincarnation has thi
*"Skills are a special case. Your IQ-, Perception-, and Will-based skills are unchanged. Other skills remain at the same relative skill level."

These can totally mess up the lich's ability to cast spells as its total FP will change.
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Last edited by maximara; 07-05-2020 at 05:47 AM.
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Old 07-05-2020, 07:23 AM   #35
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Default Re: Different Liches [Magic/Horror]

You could get around the FP issue by using Energy Reserve, which is priced identically and powers spellcasting but cannot be used for nonspellcasting, nor can it be drained by stuff that normally drains FP.
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Old 07-05-2020, 07:28 AM   #36
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Default Re: Different Liches [Magic/Horror]

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Originally Posted by maximara View Post
Considering Karla of Record of Lodoss War (which is a Dungeons & Dragons "replay") who is an "old-school lich whose phylactery is a head ornament" can take over living hosts you really don't need an inverse Possession for the undead when a modified version of reincarnation fits the bill.
"Karla is an old-school lich" doesn't really follow, seeing as her abilities seem much more akin to someone who has used the Magic Jar spell (as noted in the TVTropes entry you're quoting here). And, of course, SolemnGolem is explicitly trying to create a corpse-hopping lich, not one who can possess both the living and the dead (and I don't recall Karla ever possessing a dead body; in GURPS she'd probably be built as the circlet, with Flight and Possession with a lesser version of Telecontrol).

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These can totally mess up the lich's ability to cast spells as its total FP will change.
It's probably going to be up to the GM if the extra FP the player purchased for the sole purpose of spellcasting is something that carries over to the new body; I can see arguments for and against. Of course, if the original character had a really high HT, certainly at least those FP would be lost. This is an excellent case for a body-hopping lich (or any body-hopping spellcaster, really) to invest in ER rather than FP; ER are more likely to be bound to the "soul" in some way, so make sense to transfer over.
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Old 07-05-2020, 08:56 AM   #37
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Default Re: Different Liches [Magic/Horror]

Thanks Varyon and Phantasm for the useful answers. I think I have my Ravenloft lich build.

Possession at +0%, with the inverse mechanic that it can only possess corpses (or active undead at a successful Will roll - meaning it usually wins against Zombies but things like Vampires might be a bit more challenging). Then a +40% for Ranged (and RAW even specifies Possession as an appropriate use). Edit: Another confounding factor is that the lich can possess a zombie, then get killed as the zombie, and still not die - this is different from Possession normally since death of the vessel usually kills the possessor as well. However, I'm not going to change the cost of Possession just for this trait, since the lich already bought Unkillable, specifically to get around this sort of problem.

This means the lich can leap from corpse to corpse without having to trigger a Reincarnation by "dying". It also means that you don't have to create a new form with entirely new abilities, the way you would with Reincarnation.

Reincarnation seems to be a good defense against adventurers if they get a lucky encounter against you and do you in. Whereas Ranged Possession seems to be a wholly applicable combat use - to disorient and confuse your foes and allow you to continue striking from different bodies.

Last edited by SolemnGolem; 07-05-2020 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 07-05-2020, 09:06 AM   #38
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Default Re: Different Liches [Magic/Horror]

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Originally Posted by SolemnGolem View Post
Thanks Varyon and Phantasm for the useful answers. I think I have my Ravenloft lich build.

Possession at +0%, with the inverse mechanic that it can only possess corpses (or active undead at a successful Will roll - meaning it usually wins against Zombies but things like Vampires might be a bit more challenging). Then a +40% for Ranged (and RAW even specifies Possession as an appropriate use).

This means the lich can leap from corpse to corpse without having to trigger a Reincarnation by "dying". It also means that you don't have to create a new form with entirely new abilities, the way you would with Reincarnation.

Reincarnation seems to be a good defense against adventurers if they get a lucky encounter against you and do you in. Whereas Ranged Possession seems to be a wholly applicable combat use - to disorient and confuse your foes and allow you to continue striking from different bodies.
From the descriptions of how a corpse-hopping lich functions, I'd be strongly inclined to build the lich as the phylactery, and add Telecontrol +50% so you don't die if the corpse you currently inhabit is destroyed (bonus, you no longer need Unkillable 2/3; Unkillable 1 is only appropriate if total destruction of the phylactery is necessary to stop you). The mention of how inactive corpses can be inhabited without a contest sounds an awful lot like Puppet, so it may be appropriate to purchase the [10] level of Puppet, but without the necessary Ally Group to go with it (as you don't get the benefit of having an actual Ally Group, just of being able to readily inhabit bodies). Alternatively, this would mean "Undead Only" should be an Enhancement of some flavor for Possession, rather than +0%.
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Old 07-05-2020, 10:42 AM   #39
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Default Re: Different Liches [Magic/Horror]

The phylactory as the vessel of a lich would really only require Soul Jar.
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