Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-27-2015, 03:42 AM   #1
scc
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Default Martial Arts and Claws

OK, the Karate skill represents knowing advanced striking knoweldge, but there are certain things you can't use it with, including claws and likely other similar natural weapons.

Realistically this doesn't make much sense, if I come from a race with claws there will be advanced strikes that take advantage of them, so can anyone explain this?
scc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2015, 03:44 AM   #2
Leynok
 
Leynok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Australia WA
Default Re: Martial Arts and Claws

I can't give you a reference, but I believe Martial Arts added that races that naturally have claws and strikers and so on can use them as part of fighting styles developed by that race.
Otherwise a simple Perk would allow them to be used.
Leynok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2015, 03:54 AM   #3
the_matrix_walker
 
the_matrix_walker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lynn, MA
Default Re: Martial Arts and Claws

Actually, no Perk is required. Your Claws work with your Martial Arts skills by default.
the_matrix_walker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2015, 04:39 AM   #4
Phil Masters
 
Phil Masters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: U.K.
Default Re: Martial Arts and Claws

By the Basic Set skill definitions, Brawling works fine with Claws, including the damage bonuses, but other unarmed skills don't. However, Martial Arts,, p.57, suggests that Karate should work with Claws.

By strong implication, though, Boxing still doesn't. I seem to recall this coming up somewhere when we were sorting out Martial Arts 2100. Basically, Boxing striking forms don't exploit claws very well. A race with claws will presumably tend to develop styles incorporating Karate rather than Boxing.
__________________
--
Phil Masters
Creator of The Small Folk - Wainscot Urban Fantasy Roleplaying.
Discworld Roleplaying Game author, Transhuman Space Line Editor.
My Home Page.
Phil Masters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2015, 07:34 AM   #5
aesir23
 
aesir23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Vermont
Default Re: Martial Arts and Claws

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Masters View Post
By strong implication, though, Boxing still doesn't. I seem to recall this coming up somewhere when we were sorting out Martial Arts 2100. Basically, Boxing striking forms don't exploit claws very well. A race with claws will presumably tend to develop styles incorporating Karate rather than Boxing.
Meh, this is needlessly non-generic. A race with claws only on their hands would likely develop a style that used something game-mechanically identical to boxing but took advantage of claws.
aesir23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2015, 07:58 AM   #6
Varyon
On Notice
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Martial Arts and Claws

Claws and suitably-themed Strikers and Natural Weapons (those on the hands and feet) should be readily usable with Karate, although if such Advantages are extremely rare (such that there is unlikely to be many/any styles incorporating them) it may be appropriate to require a Perk. Personally, I allow for a Monstrous Combat Perk to be able to use all Natural Weapons and the like (including teeth, horns, etc) with Karate. For an Under the Hood look, this is functionally Skill Adaptation (Brawling techniques default to Karate).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Masters View Post
By strong implication, though, Boxing still doesn't. I seem to recall this coming up somewhere when we were sorting out Martial Arts 2100. Basically, Boxing striking forms don't exploit claws very well. A race with claws will presumably tend to develop styles incorporating Karate rather than Boxing.
I always think of Boxing as being "Punch-only Karate." So long as Claws are common enough to have been incorporated into a few styles (or one big one), I see no issue with allowing Boxing to make use of them. At worst, a Perk should suffice.
Varyon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2015, 08:56 AM   #7
RyanW
 
RyanW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Southeast NC
Default Re: Martial Arts and Claws

And there's nothing in the rules that says Claws has to be literal "claws." Claws could be knuckle spikes, for instance. If you really see a problem, maybe say the damage is the better of the Claws bonus and the skill bonus (Karate is about overcoming the limitations of barehanded strikes?).
__________________
RyanW
Sure, you can clean up all your messes now, but if you let it go long enough you'll eventually wind up with just one big mess to clean up. Huge time saver.
RyanW is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2015, 09:12 AM   #8
Varyon
On Notice
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Default Re: Martial Arts and Claws

Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanW View Post
And there's nothing in the rules that says Claws has to be literal "claws." Claws could be knuckle spikes, for instance. If you really see a problem, maybe say the damage is the better of the Claws bonus and the skill bonus (Karate is about overcoming the limitations of barehanded strikes?).
Those are a pretty good points. Realistically, the damage bonuses of Brawling, Boxing, and Karate would have two components - one being making your fist/foot/whatever into a more efficient striking surface, the other being training to get the most power into your strikes from your muscles. The former would be a straight bonus to damage and wouldn't stack with Claws and the like (which already serve as efficient striking surfaces), while the latter would be treated like Trained ST from Technical Grappling and would. If just using current rules, however, it would arguably be most balanced to have Brawling work as-is and have Boxing/Karate have +1 of their total damage bonus not stack with Claws and the like. So, take a character with thr 2d and some Claws that do thr+1. Maximized Brawling, he can punch for 2d+1, claw for 2d+3/3d-1. Maximized Boxing/Karate, he can punch for 2d+3/3d-1, claw for 2d+4/3d (so he's at -1 damage when clawing relative to MA RAW).
Varyon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2015, 10:32 AM   #9
Kromm
GURPS Line Editor
 
Kromm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
Default Re: Martial Arts and Claws

Honestly, I'd just have unarmed fighting skills modify punching and kicking damage completely blind to whether the damage they're modifying comes from ST, Claws, Striking ST, or something else. That is:
  1. Start with ST.
  2. Add any specialized ST (Arm ST, Striking ST, or anything weirder) that affects the unarmed attack in question.
  3. Find thrust for that ST total.
  4. Modify thrust as necessary for the basic attack type or technique (e.g., bite and punch are thrust-1).
  5. Add any damage modifiers for Claws.
  6. Add any damage modifiers for skills.
The most important principle to bear in mind is that you can count only a single modifier at each of the last three steps. You can't "stack" Exotic Hand Strike with Uppercut, Claws with Striker, or Boxing with Karate . . . and if you stick a claw-like fist weapon on your hand, you can't apply both its effects and those of natural Claws, or treat it as a weapon that gets Weapon Master bonuses and still claim Karate bonuses. You receive at most one attack-type effect, one striking-surface effect, and one skill effect.
__________________
Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com>
GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games
My LiveJournal [Just GURPS News][Just The Company]
Kromm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2015, 11:00 AM   #10
DouglasCole
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
 
DouglasCole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Burnsville, MN
Default Re: Martial Arts and Claws

The only difference I'd look to use is to make the stuff modify ST, and look up the last.
__________________
Gaming Ballistic, LLC: Home of Dragon Heresy, Hall of Judgment, and hand-made viking shields.
Now Funding on Kickstarter: Nordlond Sagas: Three New books for the DFRPG
Pre-Order on Backerkit: Four Perilous Journeys: New Adventures plus physical accessories for The Fantasy Trip. FIVE adventures for TFT, written by David Pulver and the team of Christopher R. Rice and J. Edward Tremlett.
DouglasCole is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
martial arts

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.