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Old 11-07-2014, 12:52 PM   #21
Gedrin
 
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Default Re: [MA] Silent Sentry Removal

Providing a sentry isn't totally surprised, I use the Solider skill to determine if the guard does something to alert his fellows rather than simply fight for his life. Depending on damage and hit location of the removal attempt, the soldier roll will be penalized. Covering the mouth, severing the windpipe, deflating lungs and bashing in the brain all would impact the ability of the sentry to alert.

There was some discussion at our table about screaming in pain being automatic, but during the next fight I describe a hit on the PC as follows, "You take 8 cutting from the ax and scream like a girl." It was soon agreed that trained combatants typically bear the pain as best they can without crying out.
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Old 11-07-2014, 01:05 PM   #22
johndallman
 
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Default Re: [MA] Silent Sentry Removal

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
IThe question is whether the extra risk of breaking free on subsequent turns is worth the stab to the Vitals.
Characters don't have detailed insight into the combat rules. It is easier to be confident that someone isn't going to recover from what you did to him if his blood is all over the ground than if you've throttled him, apparently to death, but don't have time or light for a detailed examination.
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Old 11-07-2014, 01:18 PM   #23
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Default Re: [MA] Silent Sentry Removal

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Characters don't have detailed insight into the combat rules. It is easier to be confident that someone isn't going to recover from what you did to him if his blood is all over the ground than if you've throttled him, apparently to death, but don't have time or light for a detailed examination.
True. But on the other hand, there's certainly also the perceived risk of holding the target with just one hand, as opposed to two. Because if s/he breaks free, there will be lots of trouble, both the next second and once the rest of the enemy camps hears the sounds.
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Old 11-07-2014, 01:37 PM   #24
Flyndaran
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Default Re: [MA] Silent Sentry Removal

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
True. But on the other hand, there's certainly also the perceived risk of holding the target with just one hand, as opposed to two. Because if s/he breaks free, there will be lots of trouble, both the next second and once the rest of the enemy camps hears the sounds.
From my next to zero knowledge of grappling, it seems like a go all out or go home endeavor. Trying it one handed sounds like half-assing combat at best.
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Old 11-07-2014, 01:50 PM   #25
johndallman
 
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Default Re: [MA] Silent Sentry Removal

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
True. But on the other hand, there's certainly also the perceived risk of holding the target with just one hand, as opposed to two. Because if s/he breaks free, there will be lots of trouble, both the next second and once the rest of the enemy camps hears the sounds.
Yup. And if you're choking him, he gets quite a few seconds to try that breaking free. The AoA (Double) approach has the advantage of possibly stunning him or even putting him on negative hits in the initial attack, and being likely to do so on the second stab, in the next turn. Edit: He's also on a shock penalty for his attempt to break free.

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Old 11-07-2014, 02:08 PM   #26
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Default Re: [MA] Silent Sentry Removal

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Originally Posted by johndallman View Post
Characters don't have detailed insight into the combat rules. It is easier to be confident that someone isn't going to recover from what you did to him if his blood is all over the ground than if you've throttled him, apparently to death, but don't have time or light for a detailed examination.
Of course, once the target's been throttled, it really isn't much to slit the target's throat right then and there. It has the added advantage of likely being far less messy.

There are, of course, other considerations for why I kind of prefer the blood choke method, particularly when using Technical Grappling. First off, the two-handed grapple is going to let you accrue CP far more rapidly (and have a higher maximum value), which is going to penalize anything the target attempts. When the target finally goes limp, using both arms means you'll be able to support his body more effectively, minimizing the chances of a noisy clattering on the ground. Additionally, choke hold means your attempt to cause damage is a free action, and I see no reason why Choke Hold and Choke/Strangle couldn't be used at the same time. Mechanically, I'd say you start with All Out Attack (Double) for Choke Hold (to establish a grapple and accumulate some CP) and Strangle (to silence and begin suffocating the target and do a little damage; I'd just spend 1 CP on this to start). If your target is still Stunned the next round, AOA (Strong) to establish more CP and maybe burning some CP on a carotid choke (for FP damage) is probably your best bet. Keep this up (possibly switching back to normal attack once your target shakes off Stun) until you've maxed out CP - from now on, you can either just spend all the CP you get from your attack on a carotid choke, or you can alternate between accumulating CP and Strangling. Either way, if I'm interpreting things correctly the target begins suffocating as soon as you start (so long as you succeeded on the Strangle) and continues to do so until he can break free.

A Choke Hold using a knife for leverage (for a +1 on the quick contest) can also be extremely effective - thanks to the bladed edge, every CP you inflict to the Neck is going to do 1 HP injury*, in addition to any effects from Strangle (note you probably can't do a carotid choke with a knife), which is going to get the x2 WM for cutting to the neck. While the dual FP-damaging affects (Suffocation and direct FP damage from carotid choke) from the method above can drop the target fairly quickly, this knife method is going to make him dead on the quick. The disadvantages are the risk of cutting your own hands (see MA69) and the horrible mess you'll be making.

As noted above, there's all that blood if you go the knife route. Getting yourself covered in blood might have a negative impact on your visual camouflage, may cause enemies (notably dogs) with strong senses of smell to be more likely to notice you, and can make it much more difficult to act like you're supposed to be there (if you have a believable disguise). For the last bit, it can also ruin the sentry's uniform, making that unavailable as a disguise. A guard who isn't at his station might only result in his CO looking for him to give him a chewing out, but a pool of blood found where a guard should be is guaranteed to cause the alarm to sound. Finally, there are psychological effects to consider. If your ninja-commando somehow has Reluctant Killer, the blood choke method won't be penalized by it (you're attacking to subdue) and once your target has passed out you've got a lot of time to overcome that -4 to finish him off (personally, I'd require some sort of penalized roll once the target passes out to keep choking, as at that point you're at the "obviously lethal" part of things). Something like Cool Under Fire (TS34) may also apply - choking your target out doesn't really cause any visible wounds and won't get any blood on you, so you don't need to worry about a penalty there, but going in with a knife is going to cause both in spades.
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Old 11-08-2014, 04:40 AM   #27
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Default Re: [MA] Silent Sentry Removal

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Makes me wonder how much the stories about sneaky Gurkha are hype, BTW. (Though I do realise that the frequency of sneaky disposals is usually exaggerated, what I'm wondering is whether all of it is lies, or merely a distortion of frequencies.)
Thing is sneaky Gurkha type is probably more about small scale ambushing rather than silent killing (ala metal gear sold / batman were we sneak about the enemy stronghold leaving a spiral patten of dead bodies). So is more about about "what another patrol didn't come back from the jungle" rather than waking up to find all you watch guards lying dead from ninja kills..
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Old 11-08-2014, 09:14 AM   #28
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Default Re: [MA] Silent Sentry Removal

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Shooting people, with suppressed or even not suppressed people, tends to be the solution of choice.
Yeah, but people are somewhat heavy and hard to carry around...
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Old 11-08-2014, 09:18 AM   #29
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Default Re: [MA] Silent Sentry Removal

I don't think that anything that Gurkhas might do or have done should be considered as typical. Given the way that Gurkha boys are raised, it is probably reasonable for them to take a Talent that adds to Stealth, Camouflage, Knife, Hiking, Running and Solider.

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Old 11-08-2014, 09:35 AM   #30
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Default Re: [MA] Silent Sentry Removal

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Given the way that Gurka boys are raised, it is probably reasonable for them to take a Talent that adds to Stealth, Camouflage, Knife, Hiking, Running and Solider.
The recruitment process is very selective. Apparently there are around 25,000 applicants each year for 200-300 places.
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