11-13-2014, 02:06 AM | #1 | |
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Germany
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Grappling and Concentrate (or other forbidden maneuvers)
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I personally do find the hard limit straining credibility and I think it is too much of a hard counter for mages and similar characters, so discussing ways to handle it less strictly would be in my interest, especially since i also do not really enjoy technical grappling enough to switch over to it for it's own (if also rather restrictive) take on it. So, let us discuss possible alternatives: I myself think that as you can CONTINUE a series of related concentrate maneuvers (see the Magic chapter in GURPS Basic Set), that rule (Will -3 to continue concentrating) could be a good basis. I also think that the degree of physical involvement should be considered, either in such a will roll OR in the roll for the concentration maneuver itself. Spells in particular should of course be completely impossible or very highly penalized if their verbal or somatic components are restricted (hand in front of the mouth, arms pinned). I am also of the opinion though that some activities (a mental skill roll to remember a foes weakness, a sense roll, both examples given in the description of concentrate in the basic set) should be perfectly fine with just a Will roll -3. Having a good chance to need a few seconds to get your head on the task of such a thing (several failed will rolls before succeeding) seems okay, not being able to do one of those two at all while grappled seems absurd. Your input please?^^ |
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11-13-2014, 05:42 AM | #2 | |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Grappling and Concentrate (or other forbidden maneuvers)
GURPS and MA state that the Concentrate penalty within a grapple is -infinity. You're dissatisfied with this, so I think what makes the most sense is to change the penalty to something else. A penalty equal to your opponent's strength is one idea, although as discussed in the other thread, it's usually the same as -infinity unless you have some way to get a bonus big enough to cancel it out, which is why I advocate All-Out Concentrate with a big bonus.
Honestly, I'm not sure why the Magic chapter included grappling in the list of things you make a Will-3 roll to concentrate through... I guess it's for if I'm a mage, an orc comes up and grapples me, and my friend shoots the orc to death before my turn comes up. In that case, technically I was grappled, but I never had to choose a maneuver. Basic Set is very clear: Quote:
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11-13-2014, 06:00 AM | #3 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Grappling and Concentrate (or other forbidden maneuvers)
Do you have Technical Grappling? In that, Concentrate is not a forbidden maneuver, but rather requires an activation roll of Will, with a penalty based on the grappling foe's current effective ST.
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11-13-2014, 06:12 AM | #4 | ||
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: Grappling and Concentrate (or other forbidden maneuvers)
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11-13-2014, 06:13 AM | #5 |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Grappling and Concentrate (or other forbidden maneuvers)
The practical impact of this penalty is often "can't concentrate" though, so I can see why he wants an alternate.
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11-13-2014, 06:40 AM | #6 | |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Grappling and Concentrate (or other forbidden maneuvers)
Ah, so I see.
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For those who still want to use TG, simply applying the Active Control penalty to the Will roll would mimic the above. If one actually likes the way TG handles it now, but feels a starting point of -10 is rather harsh, consider halving the current penalty. -5 is still pretty close to "impossible" for a typical person, after all. |
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11-13-2014, 09:49 AM | #7 |
Join Date: Mar 2014
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Re: Grappling and Concentrate (or other forbidden maneuvers)
I don't really see why concentrating while grappling should be that difficult. In my experience it is no harder to do so while grappling than while engaging in high intensity sparring while standing (though I do admittedly have more experience with grappling).
If you impose a penalty related to the opponents strength, it should definitely take your strength into account as well. A child clinging to me won't impair my concentration nearly as much as an adult. Also even for somone much stronger than you there should be a cap for that penalty. There is a limit to how much you can distract someone with grappling without wounding your opponent (which gives it''s own penalty). Last edited by Andreas; 04-14-2015 at 04:20 PM. |
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concentrate, grapple, magic, martial arts |
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