(Another) World of Superhumans

[DangerousThing]

Originally Posted by Rupert

Imagine a super-crocodile that became empowered whilst really hungry and developed the power to attract prey, including humans, over long distances. People just start wandering into the swampland and never come out again, at a slow but steady rate.

Super-croc invades Disney World. Lawyers immediately trademark it. Lawyers eaten.

[pawsplay]

Originally Posted by Rupert

That doesn't follow. There are plenty of genes that are 'on' or 'off', and the pesticide seems to switch such a set on, but has no effect on whatever it is that determines power level.

There are pesticides that trigger sex changes in amphibians. More chemicals = more transformations.

No more than anything else is.

On the contrary, the fact we know certain gene sequences are responsible means they can be targeted.

Given that they aren't for anything else just yet, nope.

Let me give you an example using technology that is routinely used in fertility clinics. Take a super sperm donor and a bunch of eggs. Create a few hundred embryos. Identify which of the embryos have the target genetic sequence. Implant them. In fifteen years, your nation has five times the per capita supers of your neighbor.

Mentioned up-thread, and not just for insects. Imagine a super-crocodile that became empowered whilst really hungry and developed the power to attract prey, including humans, over long distances. People just start wandering into the swampland and never come out again, at a slow but steady rate.

That's certainly possible, but the idea that the pesticides definitely interact with insect biology offers some conceptual possibilities.

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by naloth

If supers are a product of induced stress, I suspect you'd see more programs like the in the movie Deadpool. Some would be volunteers, others would be volunteered. Either way you would have groups of people tortured into developing powers. Even "Sky High" (which this world sounds quite a bit like with centralized schooling) had jokes about subjecting kids to toxic waste and other hazards for powers.

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

In the comics such things are discouraged by the results 9 times out of tend being massively deformed or deranged or both. It's honestly more trouble than it's worth.

Unless they changed it for the films, Deadpool is a product of the "Weapon X" program, the same as Wolverine. Unless they've retconned it away, the major retcon Marvel introduced nearly 20 years ago was, overall, a good one. The program started referring to itself as "Weapon X" (pronouncing it with the letter X) after it broke away from its original role as Weapon X... where "X" is pronounced as "10" because it is the Roman numeral. They connected various super soldier programs together as the Weapon Plus Program.

Weapon 0 didn't produce any "super soldiers", but it was retconned as a program to study John Steele, a Timely-turned-Marvel Comics character. Weapon I produced Captain America (Steve Rogers), among others. Various other "shady government projects" from Marvel Comics history have been retconned into the various other Weapon Plus programs, as well as the characters those projects spawned. I quoted David Johnston2 because, in the Marvel Comics universe... "discouraged" may be a bit strong. Or, at best, it discouraged the projects being even remotely "open". They became the secret government programs within secret government programs.

Even in the real-world, there are many government programs, or approaches to governance, that have been tried over and over again, with less-than-stellar results. Many of these were just because a better form of government had yet to be tried, or tried, succeeded, and become well enough known for others to emulate. All in all, nothing says that, in this setting, a program to artificially create, or at least manage the "natural" production of superhumans cannot at least be a partial success. It just requires good storytelling and proper game balance. I mean, given the desire AlexanderHowl has for this world's history diverting from what we know, this is an excellent way to prop up certain "controlling" regimes, and even see greater government control in countries that at least pay lip-service to liberty in the real-world.

[AlexanderHowl]

Of course, the randomness of the abilities that manifest mean that the only reliable result of such programs would be the Supers Template. Because of the mental disadvantages that would come from the associated trauma of such programs, it would probably be a better idea if the governments just recruited and trained suitable adult supers into their Special Operations units, but even the best governments can make terrible mistakes. I would expect any products of such programs to be as insane as Deadpool but not nearly as effective as Deadpool.

As for the fertility program, the problem is that you need eggs with the super genes as well as sperm with the supers gene (since being a super is a recessive genetic trait, just having one copy of the gene is not enough). The only way to guarantee that both have the required genes is if both donors are supers. After you have an embryo with two copies of the gene, then you have to impregnate it in a fertile female human (assuming you are going for human supers).

One possibility for a breeding program though would be for a government to pay fertile women with one copy of the gene to have unprotected sex with male supers. With an average rate of one pregnancy every 40 sexual encounters, with around 80% of them reaching term, and half of them resulting in latent supers, the average male super could produce 1.8 super children per year. Of course, women with one copy of the super genes would likely only be ten times as common as female supers, so such breeding programs would probably focus on pairing them with the most powerful of male supers, on the erroneous belief that powerful super parents will produce powerful super children.

[Rupert]

If it's a simple recessive for the activating gene, with 1% having the required pair (we'll call that 'ss'), 81% will be 'SS' and have no chance of super offspring, and 18% will be 'Ss' and if they mate with an super or latent super half their offspring will be potential supers. If they mate with other Ss genotypes, one in four of their children will be latent supers (on average).

If being a super is as good as it seems (80 points of bonus attributes plus good looks, even if the power turns out to be effectively useless), once the genetic basis is shown and a test for it developed (and there'd be a huge demand for the test from consumers, let alone governments) I think being part of the SS majority would rapidly become a bit of a stigma (if not in the GURPS sense, unless a readily accessible database had the info in it), and being even a latent would be a bit of a bonus - even if you never manifested power, your children could. Of course, this'll result in false claims to having the gene when courting potential partners, and so on.

[AlexanderHowl]

It is +2 to each attribute, so +120 CP in attributes, plus Appearance (Attractive). I could definitely see supers ascending to positions of power by the 2000s, as people would have had time to get used to them. Of course, certain supers would have abilities that give such an unfair advantage that they would be banned from certain jobs.

In the case of the SS majority and Ss minority, the competition would likely force people to excel beyond IRL. 'Normal' people would be forced to become more competent in their fields and the normal stasis that occurs IRL would not happen in this world. Specialization for 'normal' people would likely occur more often and be more rewarded more than IRL, as supers would become the generalists.

With the emphasis of specialization in 'normal' people though, governments would be loathe to enter into free trade deals because of the resulting displacement of their specialists, so there would be a massive change in trade patterns staring in the 1970s. The USA would likely avoid CAFTA, NAFTA, and other trade deals in the 1990s unless needed for security reasons because of the worries about massive disruptions, and it would likely not open its markets to the developing world in the 1980s. Without US markets, Communist China would probably collapse soon after the collapse of the USSR, perhaps fragmenting into a dozen smaller nations, as regional differences, and regional rivalries, would come into play. With the collapse of Communist China, Taiwan would have a much stronger hand, and would likely start playing the diplomatic game for reunification (Hong Kong would either stay with the UK or become like Singapore).

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

It is +2 to each attribute, so +120 CP in attributes, plus Appearance (Attractive). I could definitely see supers ascending to positions of power by the 2000s, as people would have had time to get used to them. Of course, certain supers would have abilities that give such an unfair advantage that they would be banned from certain jobs.

In the case of the SS majority and Ss minority, the competition would likely force people to excel beyond IRL. 'Normal' people would be forced to become more competent in their fields a.

How amazingly optimistic. Personally I suspect that being objectively inferior would more likely lead to most just settling for whatever was left.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

It is +2 to each attribute, so +120 CP in attributes, plus Appearance (Attractive).

Apparently maths is impossible for me today. :(

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

How amazingly optimistic. Personally I suspect that being objectively inferior would more likely lead to most just settling for whatever was left.

Especially given that wealth tends to accumulate. With supers being smarter, more attractive, and living longer, they'll accumulate wealth and power. As being a super is also inheritable, dynasties will form.

Also, being an SS male will make you a very uninteresting mate unless you're really talented or rich. For an SS woman even a Ss mate means that their grandchildren have the chance to be supers, and some of their children will likely have at least some value as mates. Sure, this won't be a universal consideration, but it's going to have an effect.

A thought - is the gene's distribution aside from in Australia truly random, or do some ethnic groups have a higher or lower than 1% incidence of the 'ss' genotype? Also, is it completely unlinked to other characteristics? Or does having the ss or even Ss genotype mean slightly higher attributes on average due to a slight activation even pre-exposure to the activating chemical?

[AlexanderHowl]

Aborigines were the most isolated human population on Earth, and suffered an extreme genetic winnowing due to extreme casualties from plagues and centuries of genocide, which justifies the extreme overrepresentation (any genetic traits among the survivors would likely be over represented compared to before British colonization). Among other groups, their super population ranges from 0.5% to 2% (for example, Han Chinese have 0.5% while the minorities of China, like the Dai and the Yi, have 2%), though a few small groups outside of Australia will reach 10% (Polynesians average 10%). In general, the more isolated the population throughout its existence and the more winnowing it experienced during the 16th-19th century, the higher the proportion of supers.

Within the USA, European Americans average 0.8%, African and Asian Americans 1%, Native Americans 2%, and Native Hawaiians 10%. European American supers tend to have some mixed heritage, even if it is only from a half dozen generations ago, which did cause some issues in the Jim Crow South during the 1950s and 1960s. The fact that supers arose from minority and mixed heritage populations did not sit well among white supremicists, though they quickly learned that violence was not a winning strategy against people who could liquify their bones with a whistle.

Pre-1950s awakenings of supers genes did occur, though it happened in only one in a million people. Such awakenings were likely the sources of many legends and myths, though the vast majority of such people died at the hands of their neighbors. After the spread of firearms, supers with obvious powers died long before they became more than a rumor, as massed fire would overwhelm most supers. Those will subtle powers, however, managed to survive and thrive in secrecy.