[Supers] Nerfed Marvel Universe

[naloth]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

He is the strongest and toughest person on Earth. I might give Juggernaut comparable durability and/or lifting strength to him, but that's it.

It might help to clarify the caps. If energy weapons (or powers) won't exceed 10d, then the values here aren't bad. If they can go as high as physical attacks (25d-ish? perhaps higher?)

I will point out that military grade weapons will be an issue for him. IT:DR/20 will allow tank weaponry to affect him like a pistol affects a person. Regular assault rifles can chew up his HP50 with enough sustained fire while his regeneration after the first 10 seconds looks like it drops to minutely (which isn't combat effective). These are reasonable for having the military as an enemy you want to avoid.

Super-ST in this range is fairly marginal considering what else you can do for the points.

You could probably rework him with an ER for godlike EE and lots of regular ST. Here's a quick example with round numbers that's approximately the same PV. This version has quite a bit more HP, a higher "normal" ST, and could lift a lot more in an emergency.

Example:
ST +70 (SM-1 -10%) [630]
ER 20 (Perk level, fuels ST extra effort only) [20]
Lifting (Will based)-14 [8]

Lift-2 and 5 ER, +100% = ST 160 (STx2)
Lift-2 and 10 ER, +200% = ST 240 (STx3)
Lift-2 and 20 ER, +400% = ST 480 (STx6)

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by naloth

It might help to clarify the caps. If energy weapons (or powers) won't exceed 10d, then the values here aren't bad. If they can go as high as physical attacks (25d-ish? perhaps higher?

Yeah, definitely nowhere close to that. Innate Attacks in general will be very unlikely to exceed 10d, and may not even reach that much.

Originally Posted by naloth

I will point out that military grade weapons will be an issue for him. IT:DR/20 will allow tank weaponry to affect him like a pistol affects a person. Regular assault rifles can chew up his HP50 with enough sustained fire while his regeneration after the first 10 seconds looks like it drops to minutely (which isn't combat effective). These are reasonable for having the military as an enemy you want to avoid.

Don't forget his DR25. A 7.62 assault rifle dealing 7d pi, without armor-piecing ammo, will be completely stopped about half the time, and can never deal more than 1 point of injury. But yes, he is relatively vulnerable to heavy weapons, and as you said, this makes sense.

Originally Posted by naloth

Super-ST in this range is fairly marginal considering what else you can do for the points.

You could probably rework him with an ER for godlike EE and lots of regular ST. Here's a quick example with round numbers that's approximately the same PV. This version has quite a bit more HP, a higher "normal" ST, and could lift a lot more in an emergency.

Example:
ST +70 (SM-1 -10%) [630]
ER 20 (Perk level, fuels ST extra effort only) [20]
Lifting (Will based)-14 [8]

Lift-2 and 5 ER, +100% = ST 160 (STx2)
Lift-2 and 10 ER, +200% = ST 240 (STx3)
Lift-2 and 20 ER, +400% = ST 480 (STx6)

I've seen people bring up this way of building superstrength in other threads, and I have to be honest, I just don't quite like it. It's the same way I feel about KYOS. Super-Effort makes sense to me, and I'm not super-concerned over point value here.

[awesomenessofme1]

After it was pointed out to me I didn't note Hulk's SM in the statblock, I'm going back and working on a slight redesign in the style of the stablocks in this thread. Adding SM and Dodge stats.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

Y
Don't forget his DR25. A 7.62 assault rifle dealing 7d pi, without armor-piecing ammo, will be completely stopped about half the time, and can never deal more than 1 point of injury. But yes, he is relatively vulnerable to heavy weapons, and as you said, this makes sense.

Pistols that do 2d+2 or less will usually fail to reach the 10 points of damage necessary to do 1 point of damage. Anything greater will do blunt trauma since he has "Tough Skin" on his DR.

It would be really hard to kill him with one assault rifle (50 hits just to get him down to 0 HP), but a few squads of soldiers concentrating fire will chip away pretty quickly.

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by naloth

Pistols that do 2d+2 or less will usually fail to reach the 10 points of damage necessary to do 1 point of damage. Anything greater will do blunt trauma since he has "Tough Skin" on his DR.

It would be really hard to kill him with one assault rifle (50 hits just to get him down to 0 HP), but a few squads of soldiers concentrating fire will chip away pretty quickly.

Yeah, blunt trauma just totally slipped my mind. You're right. Considering he has enough HT to survive and stay conscious even when in negative HP, I think Hulk actually might be a very good candidate for Injury Tolerance (Unstoppable). What do you think?

[naloth]

Originally Posted by awesomenessofme1

Yeah, blunt trauma just totally slipped my mind. You're right. Considering he has enough HT to survive and stay conscious even when in negative HP, I think Hulk actually might be a very good candidate for Injury Tolerance (Unstoppable). What do you think?

It provides a good reason why he would stand his ground vs a few foes but run if the military was closing in.

It sounds nice, but I don't know what that ability does. Where is it from?

Edit. Nevermind, I found your prior post in an old thread. Yes, I'd add that for low HP.

[Donny Brook]

Quick takes on Anthony Stark/Iron Man:

I'd lower ST and HT both by a notch. He's got a serious health problem, and he's not usually considered natively athletic. Also his wt. seems too high. But if you want him to be this buff, he should probably have Fit too.

The repulsor seems weak, both in inherent damage and in Knockback. Also DR seems low.

Also, the suit needs:
-vacuum support;
-comm systems including a P/A and LOUD speakers;
-a sensor array; and
-onboard AI.


Reflections on the Hulk build:

ST+20? DR 25? Puny Hulk!

His Damage Reduction should apply to energy attacks too.

In both strength and durability they should scale with his rage, with theoretically no known limits.

I'd be inclined to build him with Unkillable. Also, regarding the transformation time, in the movies Banner says attempted suicide by shooting himself in the mouth, but the Hulk spat the bullet out.

Also, I'd bump his IQ up but add Bestial.

[pawsplay]

I'm not sure about Stark's OPH (extreme narcissism). In real life, narcissists often appear to be attractive, at least at first, and this dynamic seems to play out in the MCU. I'd be more inclined to add something like Selfish.

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

I'd lower ST and HT both by a notch. He's got a serious health problem, and he's not usually considered natively athletic. Also his wt. seems too high. But if you want him to be this buff, he should probably have Fit too.

The weight comes from his marvel.com biography (it's actually reduced from 225 lb), and I think that number appears elsewhere as well, since it's the number Phantasm uses in his Marvel Reboot thread. He uses the Official Handbook, iirc. I chose that ST number because I didn't want moderately athletic, 220-lb Stark to have equal ST to moderately athletic, 185-lb Pym.

Re: HT. Looking at it now, I realize I don't have anything to represent his heart issue on the sheet. It was a while ago when I made it, so I don't remember if it was an oversight or I deliberately decided to make it resolved. I'll have to think on it.

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

The repulsor seems weak, both in inherent damage and in Knockback. Also DR seems low.

Probably a good call on the repulsor. Does 8d sound better? Should I add a few extra levels of knockback-only to it?

Don't forget he also has Damage Reduction. As it stands now, his armor provides functional immunity to small-arms fire, reduces most HMGs to scratch damage, and turns a direct hit from a LAW from chunky-salsa-level damage to survivable. That's about the level I want.

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Also, the suit needs:
-vacuum support;
-comm systems including a P/A and LOUD speakers;
-a sensor array; and
-onboard AI.

Vacuum support is a good call. I didn't think of it because I didn't think he'd be in space, but a) it has uses on the ground, and b) it doesn't make much sense to have Sealed and Pressure Support, but not Vacuum Support.

Penetrating Voice is another good suggestion. Did you have anything else in mind for the second bullet point?

What sensors were you thinking of? Some variation of Scanning Sense? He currently does have Infravision.

AI is not something this version of Stark has. Various programs, yes, but I'm including some level of niche protection, and since I want Pym to eventually be able to make Ultron, I gave him Computer Programming (AI). Was there any specific computer functions you thought he should have?

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

ST+20? DR 25? Puny Hulk!

He has total ST of 41/180. I may end up giving him one more level of Super-ST if I end up needing more granularity after statting up other heavy-hitters. But he will be the strongest character in the setting (maybe tied in certain aspects, but no lower). And again, don't forget the Damage Reduction. He's still very durable.

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

His Damage Reduction should apply to energy attacks too.

I've explained my reasoning here, but given multiple people have brought it up, I'll think about it.

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

In both strength and durability they should scale with his rage, with theoretically no known limits.

I'm not including this part of his power, for two reasons. 1) It's difficult to emulate properly using GURPS. 2) Someone with theoretically unlimited power doesn't fit at all into the setting.

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

I'd be inclined to build him with Unkillable. Also, regarding the transformation time, in the movies Banner says attempted suicide by shooting himself in the mouth, but the Hulk spat the bullet out.

Actually, now that you mention it, Unkillable 1 might make sense for both Hulk and Banner. For Banner, it means he can get much more badly injured without dying so that it can trigger the transformation. For Hulk, it just means much more longevity, especially with the Injury Tolerance (Unstoppable) I was thinking about adding.

Originally Posted by Donny Brook

Also, I'd bump his IQ up but add Bestial.

I'm not opposed to the idea, but can you explain your reasoning?

Originally Posted by pawsplay

I'm not sure about Stark's OPH (extreme narcissism). In real life, narcissists often appear to be attractive, at least at first, and this dynamic seems to play out in the MCU. I'd be more inclined to add something like Selfish.

I'll think about it. But remember, he will usually get a pretty significant reaction bonus because of his Appearance, Status, and Wealth, with the OPH only kicking in after a decent amount of conversation, so the dynamic you're talking about could still be represented in-game.

[Flyndaran]

I only know movie and Bill Bixby TV Hulk, but IQ 8 sounds spot on, IMO. He's slow but still in the adult human range. Toddler level impulsivity, but not "angry genius" or cliched "cunning animal".