Robot PCs

[newton]

So, I believe its quite evident that robots have a *very* high point value. This is indeed pretty fair in isolation, a robot for UT would probably work as a character in a supers game of a lower TL. However, there is a problem, in an UT setting many of these advantages can, just due to the nature of how robots work, be bought. the two biggest expenses in a lot of UT robots are armor and strength both of which can be aquired with the use of one of the various powered armors with a much lower amount of points invested in wealth.

My question is, how do you get robot and human players into the same game while having them feel balanced points-wise?

[ravenfish]

One "unofficial" method is, when a robot's features would resemble technology anyone could in principle buy, is to have the player pay points for Signature Gear and Payload sufficient to buy and carry equivalent items. Thus, the robot pays something for the fact that he can't easily lose his built-in equipment and the fact that he doesn't have to spend encumbrance on hauling it, but doesn't pay the outsize price it would cost to mimic it with advantages.

[ericthered]

I (usually) don't allow the robot to buy ST or attributes related to ST, and treat all robots as vehicles. If an AI can move around in it, so can a player, and they do so using the piloting skill. The AI's DX applies to piloting and other skills, is not effected by which robot he is in, and the HT defends against threats like computer viruses and hacking. The vehicle has its own HT, just like a car or a battle suit.

I make the robot buy things that make it better than a pilot, like not sleeping.

There are cases were I won't use this method, but I always consider it first.

A worked example of this method is on my blog, applying this treatment to C31R07, the thousand point combat robot in characters. I also go into more details on it in the post on robot attributes (though that series is mostly made with allies and NPC's in mind).

This is of course only one way to handle this thorny problem, but its one I'm fond of.

[newton]

Originally Posted by ravenfish

One "unofficial" method is, when a robot's features would resemble technology anyone could in principle buy, is to have the player pay points for Signature Gear and Payload sufficient to buy and carry equivalent items. Thus, the robot pays something for the fact that he can't easily lose his built-in equipment and the fact that he doesn't have to spend encumbrance on hauling it, but doesn't pay the outsize price it would cost to mimic it with advantages.

I think this works especially well in games where the robots should be able to be modified freely

Originally Posted by ericthered

I (usually) don't allow the robot to buy ST or attributes related to ST, and treat all robots as vehicles. If an AI can move around in it, so can a player, and they do so using the piloting skill. The AI's DX applies to piloting and other skills, is not effected by which robot he is in, and the HT defends against threats like computer viruses and hacking. The vehicle has its own HT, just like a car or a battle suit.

I make the robot buy things that make it better than a pilot, like not sleeping.

There are cases were I won't use this method, but I always consider it first.

A worked example of this method is on my blog, applying this treatment to C31R07, the thousand point combat robot in characters. I also go into more details on it in the post on robot attributes (though that series is mostly made with allies and NPC's in mind).

This is of course only one way to handle this thorny problem, but its one I'm fond of.

If i have this right the idea is that you would be statting the character up as the drive containing the ai rather than the robot itself?

[AlexanderHowl]

In general, I find that it works out best if PCs purchase robot bodies as if they were Signature Gear if their intelligence is transferable, because their body is just another type of gear. If their intelligence is not transferable, then they need to build themselves as if they were just another super, as their being a robot is just a special effect. Remember, robots can purchase the gear of anyone else, so there are really no game balance issues.

For example, let us say that robotic intelligence is transferable. If a robot desires a body that costs $1 million at TL10, then they can spend 40 CP on it (they could spend cash, but I can then break it whenever I feel like it) because any other PC could do the same. If they want modifications beyond the TL, then they would have to purchase them with points, just like any PC getting abilities.

If the intelligence is nontransferable though, then they need to pay the points for the body. If they want to buy another robot with nontransferable intelligence, then they are purchasing a slave or pet or toy, depending on the intelligence, rather than gear. If they want any modifications, they would cost points, just like any PC purchasing cyberwear or bioware.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

In general, I find that it works out best if PCs purchase robot bodies as if they were Signature Gear if their intelligence is transferable, because their body is just another type of gear.

No way would I be letting players buy shells as signature gear in a normal SF game where robots are common - their robot shell is hardly noteworthy or unique. Firstly, it's giving them a bargain price compared to those buying equipment with normal starting money, and secondly, signature gear has to be readily replaceable or refundable if the GM trashes it.

In a game where robots/androids are so rare that the PC is effectively unique I'd consider it, because then their body meets the criteria of "You have distinctive, valuable possessions unrelated to your wealth level. This gear is as much a part of your personal legend as are your reputation and skills."

If their intelligence is not transferable, then they need to build themselves as if they were just another super, as their being a robot is just a special effect. Remember, robots can purchase the gear of anyone else, so there are really no game balance issues.

Agreed.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by newton

If i have this right the idea is that you would be statting the character up as the drive containing the ai rather than the robot itself?

Kind of. Its more like I'm ignoring the physical form. I don't give the character SM-6, Sessile, and reduce them to 3 HP. Even when I've tried those sorts of builds, I've generally slapped a -60% to -80% mitigator on most disadvantages, but I find it simpler to just take default for any score that is soley dependent on the body.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

If the intelligence is nontransferable though, then they need to pay the points for the body. If they want to buy another robot with nontransferable intelligence, then they are purchasing a slave or pet or toy, depending on the intelligence, rather than gear. If they want any modifications, they would cost points, just like any PC purchasing cyberwear or bioware.

I use the "Body as equipment" route even when intelligence is non-transferable, if the PC's can access equipment that makes them the rough equal of the robot, especially battlesuits, but including other combat vehicles. In that case, its arguable that the humans can transfer their intelligence between "Bodies". They're just transferring their bodies as well.

[AlexanderHowl]

Robots can usually use battlesuits, though they may have to be modified for their specific frame, so I do not see that as a persuasive argument. As for the 'point crock' of Signature Gear, I do not see it that way, as the character will never get the full value for the used item (anyway, exchanging 1 CP for 10% starting wealth in cash has to be one of the worst deals in GURPS).

[newton]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Robots can usually use battlesuits, though they may have to be modified for their specific frame, so I do not see that as a persuasive argument.

the extra strength and dr on top of a battle suit is useful yes but is it 250-550 character points useful

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

As for the 'point crock' of Signature Gear, I do not see it that way, as the character will never get the full value for the used item (anyway, exchanging 1 CP for 10% starting wealth in cash has to be one of the worst deals in GURPS).

And allowing easy access to Signature Gear to purchase stuff is easily one of the best deals in GURPS. Two points at TL10 for a commando battlesuit that the GM can't arbitrarily take away or blow up? 5-points for a heavy battlesuit plus a big gun? Yes, please.

I'll go with DFRPG's take - Extra Money is 50% of base starting wealth per point, and Signature Gear is just the plot immunity, at one point per item (or armour set). This buffs Extra Money as an option, and nerfs Signature Gear, which IMO is something it needs.