Running Tollenkar's Lair

pyratejohn · 06-29-2018, 07:49 PM

Tomorrow I'll be getting the group together for our first session of Tollenkar's Lair. Since only one other person in the group has TFT rules we will probably spend most of the evening creating characters. In discussing this with my wife, she let me know she wanted to do something completely different and play a giant. I said that's great, but then something in the back of my mind said, "Wait, isn't there something in Tollenkar's Lair about not playing a giant or centaur?" Or... am I getting confused with a statement of that nature in Security Station?

Terquem · 06-29-2018, 07:58 PM

About five years ago I had a little problem with dogs and books stored in my garage. My copy of the Lair was torn to shreds. I am really looking forward to getting a new one soon.

pyratejohn · 06-29-2018, 08:00 PM

Mine has been in a plastic baggy on a shelf in my library for decades. I remember starting to run it once back around 1983 with my college friends, but this time I'm going for the whole thing from top to bottom.

larsdangly · 06-29-2018, 08:08 PM

I've run it a bunch of times and still get a charge out of poring over my (still mint!) copy and thinking about the next outing.

A giant? Why not. A bunch of fresh-off-the-farm PCs will all be dead in a couple of hours anyway, so you might as well let them have some fun first!

pyratejohn · 06-29-2018, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by larsdangly

A giant? Why not. A bunch of fresh-off-the-farm PCs will all be dead in a couple of hours anyway, so you might as well let them have some fun first!

Ha! Excellent answer, and pretty much what I was thinking too. It will be interesting to see how quickly their PCs die, and how they will handle it. Giving them fair warning that death comes quickly might help. Or maybe not.

Oh, and I was getting that statement confused with something from Security Station. It is there on page 4, no giants, no centaurs.

larsdangly · 06-29-2018, 09:39 PM

I feel like Tolenkar's lair is a great adventure for any level party, but only if the players maintain some perspective on what they can and can't manage. A half dozen noobs can through the first 1-2 levels with only a couple of losses. Probably. A group averaging 35-38 points can get through level 3. But if you want to clean the place out to the wall studs, you probably need to be averaging in the 40-45 point range.

JLV · 06-29-2018, 09:48 PM

Which raises a pretty interesting question about how much Tollenkar's Lair will need to be re-written to accommodate the new rules...

Skarg · 06-29-2018, 10:03 PM

(FWIW, I've GM'd Tollenkar's Lair through five times:

* two serious assaults with multiple sessions by large experienced parties (One mostly cleared through level 3 and then left. The other made it to level 5 barely and then wisely left.)

* two not so serious nor experienced expeditions that didn't make it very far.

* one that never found the lair, because they never followed the rumors that led there, and instead went and did other free-range adventures (I have nearly 50 maps like the Dran map prepared in all directions).

If you treat it like a programmed adventure and read rooms one at a time, it's a far poorer and far less challenging experience than if you read ALL the descriptions (at to level 3 before the players enter, and the rest by the time they get into level 2), and then run it as intended, as a dynamic environment where the inhabitants are listening, raise alarms and run when there's serious trouble rather than getting killed without raising an alarm, do things themselves, use tactics, etc.

If you run it as a dynamic adventure, unless the players and PCs are very strong, they're going to want more than a few PCs in their party, I would say. There are many opponents down there...

But also, one of my favorite parts is the rumors list at the beginning. Those can be a wonderful way to start a campaign for a few 32-pointers. But it will involve probably months of doing stuff (nicely survivable stuff) on the overland map, slowly learning about the Duchy of Dran, what's going on and what's just a rumor, gaining experience and allies so that there might be a chance to do well in the actual lair (and giving the GM time to digest all the characters and description in the labyrinth - it's a lot, and takes some doing to go back and forth to the map figuring out who/what's where and why.

(And you'll have time to think about how to handle a giant trying to use (and/or enlarge) a one-hex shaft... ;-) )

larsdangly · 06-30-2018, 08:06 AM

I agree that you HAVE to run Tollenkar's Lair as an integrated space, with the GM assuming all reasonable levels of mobility, communication and planning among the NPCs. This has long been an important insight to how old-school D+D dungeons were really intended to be run, but TL is a particularly clear case of this principle, because of the structure of the space and nature of the inhabitants.

pyratejohn · 07-01-2018, 07:41 AM

Some pics from session one. We were down a player, so after character creation (which everyone enjoyed, especially the "jobs" part which I thought they would not like) instead of going straight into Tollenkar's Lair, I ran a fight scene so everyone could familiarize themselves the game mechanics. All in all, I believe they enjoyed the game and thought it fun and fast. I know everyone is looking forward to playing again next week.

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=b1e21bca63

06-29-2018, 07:49 PM	#1
pyratejohn Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Columbia, Maryland	Running Tollenkar's Lair Tomorrow I'll be getting the group together for our first session of Tollenkar's Lair. Since only one other person in the group has TFT rules we will probably spend most of the evening creating characters. In discussing this with my wife, she let me know she wanted to do something completely different and play a giant. I said that's great, but then something in the back of my mind said, "Wait, isn't there something in Tollenkar's Lair about not playing a giant or centaur?" Or... am I getting confused with a statement of that nature in Security Station? __________________ Happily RPGing since 1976. My Gaming and Reenacting Site (under construction)

06-29-2018, 07:58 PM	#2
Terquem Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Idaho Falls	Re: Running Tollenkar's Lair About five years ago I had a little problem with dogs and books stored in my garage. My copy of the Lair was torn to shreds. I am really looking forward to getting a new one soon.

06-29-2018, 08:00 PM	#3
pyratejohn Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Columbia, Maryland	Re: Running Tollenkar's Lair Mine has been in a plastic baggy on a shelf in my library for decades. I remember starting to run it once back around 1983 with my college friends, but this time I'm going for the whole thing from top to bottom. __________________ Happily RPGing since 1976. My Gaming and Reenacting Site (under construction)

06-29-2018, 08:08 PM	#4
larsdangly Join Date: Dec 2017	Re: Running Tollenkar's Lair I've run it a bunch of times and still get a charge out of poring over my (still mint!) copy and thinking about the next outing. A giant? Why not. A bunch of fresh-off-the-farm PCs will all be dead in a couple of hours anyway, so you might as well let them have some fun first!

06-29-2018, 09:39 PM	#6
larsdangly Join Date: Dec 2017	Re: Running Tollenkar's Lair I feel like Tolenkar's lair is a great adventure for any level party, but only if the players maintain some perspective on what they can and can't manage. A half dozen noobs can through the first 1-2 levels with only a couple of losses. Probably. A group averaging 35-38 points can get through level 3. But if you want to clean the place out to the wall studs, you probably need to be averaging in the 40-45 point range.

06-29-2018, 09:48 PM	#7
JLV Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Arizona	Re: Running Tollenkar's Lair Which raises a pretty interesting question about how much Tollenkar's Lair will need to be re-written to accommodate the new rules...

06-29-2018, 10:03 PM	#8
Skarg Join Date: May 2015	Re: Running Tollenkar's Lair (FWIW, I've GM'd Tollenkar's Lair through five times: * two serious assaults with multiple sessions by large experienced parties (One mostly cleared through level 3 and then left. The other made it to level 5 barely and then wisely left.) * two not so serious nor experienced expeditions that didn't make it very far. * one that never found the lair, because they never followed the rumors that led there, and instead went and did other free-range adventures (I have nearly 50 maps like the Dran map prepared in all directions). If you treat it like a programmed adventure and read rooms one at a time, it's a far poorer and far less challenging experience than if you read ALL the descriptions (at to level 3 before the players enter, and the rest by the time they get into level 2), and then run it as intended, as a dynamic environment where the inhabitants are listening, raise alarms and run when there's serious trouble rather than getting killed without raising an alarm, do things themselves, use tactics, etc. If you run it as a dynamic adventure, unless the players and PCs are very strong, they're going to want more than a few PCs in their party, I would say. There are many opponents down there... But also, one of my favorite parts is the rumors list at the beginning. Those can be a wonderful way to start a campaign for a few 32-pointers. But it will involve probably months of doing stuff (nicely survivable stuff) on the overland map, slowly learning about the Duchy of Dran, what's going on and what's just a rumor, gaining experience and allies so that there might be a chance to do well in the actual lair (and giving the GM time to digest all the characters and description in the labyrinth - it's a lot, and takes some doing to go back and forth to the map figuring out who/what's where and why. (And you'll have time to think about how to handle a giant trying to use (and/or enlarge) a one-hex shaft... ;-) )

06-30-2018, 08:06 AM	#9
larsdangly Join Date: Dec 2017	Re: Running Tollenkar's Lair I agree that you HAVE to run Tollenkar's Lair as an integrated space, with the GM assuming all reasonable levels of mobility, communication and planning among the NPCs. This has long been an important insight to how old-school D+D dungeons were really intended to be run, but TL is a particularly clear case of this principle, because of the structure of the space and nature of the inhabitants.

07-01-2018, 07:41 AM	#10
pyratejohn Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Columbia, Maryland	Re: Running Tollenkar's Lair Some pics from session one. We were down a player, so after character creation (which everyone enjoyed, especially the "jobs" part which I thought they would not like) instead of going straight into Tollenkar's Lair, I ran a fight scene so everyone could familiarize themselves the game mechanics. All in all, I believe they enjoyed the game and thought it fun and fast. I know everyone is looking forward to playing again next week. https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=b1e21bca63 __________________ Happily RPGing since 1976. My Gaming and Reenacting Site (under construction)