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Old 04-16-2018, 11:11 AM   #11
ArchonShiva
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
Default Re: A Simplified Heroic Archer

Quote:
Originally Posted by martinl View Post
So you've seen or been a player who chose not to shoot because of those rolls?
I think he means sometimes players don't shoot because one of these rolls came up 17+. There is a slight difference between missing and not shooting.
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:00 PM   #12
martinl
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Default Re: A Simplified Heroic Archer

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Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
Here is a link to another answer from Kromm when I asked thijs question, it coukkd easily be adapted to DFRPG (note, it's nearly 7yrs old, I don't agree with what I wrote in the thread as I had a very flawed grasp on the rules but Kromm is cool) http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...23&postcount=9
... Kromm suggested charging 6 points for it. I feel more justified in guessing 5.
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:53 PM   #13
Kalzazz
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Default Re: A Simplified Heroic Archer

He included the -3 to cancel out the quick shooting penalty as well when buying up the technique
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Old 04-16-2018, 04:08 PM   #14
mlangsdorf
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Default Re: A Simplified Heroic Archer

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Originally Posted by Harald387 View Post
I've run archers (as the player of the Scout, a player in a group with the Scout, and as GM) with similar 'no nuisance rolls' setups before. If you're okay with the Scout becoming "I shoot it in the $best_vital_location" literally every turn, this works - it definitely speeds play. If you'd like your Scout to occasionally be encouraged to do something - anything - other than just 'roll 3 dice to put an arrow downrange' when their turn comes up, this is a bad choice.
Hey! I try to move around some and take running shots. But when your only defense is Dodge, and your Dodge is not so great, and your armor is nearly non-existent, losing the ability to Retreat away from explosions by using Move and Attack is pretty risky. If less of our opponents had area effect attacks, I'd mix it up a bit more.

I'm not sure it makes Scouts any more interesting to have them unpredictably have to take a Ready maneuver instead of attacking, which was the only affect of not having No Nuisance Rolls.
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Old 04-16-2018, 04:12 PM   #15
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: A Simplified Heroic Archer

I would be tempted to remove the whole concept of rolling, and in fact remove the fast-draw skill. Instead, much easier and more generic:
Fast Ready: if you have multiple attacks, you may sacrifice an attack for a ready. An extra attack that is only usable with a single weapon can only be used to ready that weapon.
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Old 04-17-2018, 04:42 AM   #16
David Johansen
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Default Re: A Simplified Heroic Archer

Heroic Archer is something you almost need to be familiar with GURPS combat before it makes sense.

Most people who have played other games are shocked when they can only fire once every three rounds and need special abilities and extra rolls to do so.

On the other hand, one of the scout's best tricks is aiming and putting arrows in eyes.
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Old 04-18-2018, 08:11 AM   #17
Bruno
 
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Default Re: A Simplified Heroic Archer

Having played a few arrow-spewing archers of my own... I was pretty willing to run around like a dip and rain arrows down, but I usually was All About That Dual Weapon Attack option from GURPS Martial Arts, which isn't applicable here (and for good reason).

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Originally Posted by mlangsdorf View Post
I'm not sure it makes Scouts any more interesting to have them unpredictably have to take a Ready maneuver instead of attacking, which was the only affect of not having No Nuisance Rolls.
What it does is reduce overall Scout DPS. That, to me, is a generally desirable effect. It also made my life as a Scout more lively as occasionally I dropped (sometimes quite expensive) arrows on my feet instead of in the enemy's eyesocket, and instead of capering away cackling found myself bumbling around for a turn (more if I'm recovering expensive dropped arrows). This makes things like my own personal defenses more relevant, and made my character require more involvement to play than a World of Warcraft macro.
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Old 04-18-2018, 08:59 AM   #18
ericbsmith
 
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Default Re: A Simplified Heroic Archer

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
Having played a few arrow-spewing archers of my own... I was pretty willing to run around like a dip and rain arrows down, but I usually was All About That Dual Weapon Attack option from GURPS Martial Arts, which isn't applicable here (and for good reason).
In my first DF game my Archer player was having issues with his combat effectiveness. Heroic Archer adds a lot, and the Dual Bow Attack dramatically increases his effectiveness. However, Heroic Archer was always kind of a tweaky advantage with a lot of effectiveness baked in that is not exactly obvious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
What it does is reduce overall Scout DPS. That, to me, is a generally desirable effect. It also made my life as a Scout more lively as occasionally I dropped (sometimes quite expensive) arrows on my feet instead of in the enemy's eyesocket, and instead of capering away cackling found myself bumbling around for a turn (more if I'm recovering expensive dropped arrows). This makes things like my own personal defenses more relevant, and made my character require more involvement to play than a World of Warcraft macro.
My Archer player never had an issue with making three rolls to Fast-Draw/Nock/Fire his bow.

If I wanted to simplify things the way I would do it is to bake everything into one Bow-skill roll for the entire Draw/Nock/Fire procedure at -1 skill. A failure by exactly 1 simply means a failure to Draw or Nock the arrow; roll Fast-Draw to determine which: success means it was Drawn but not Nocked, failure means it wasn't Drawn properly, and critical failure means a dropped or thrown arrow.
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