Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-13-2011, 11:03 AM   #1
JCurwen3
 
JCurwen3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Default Cost of Less Sleep vs Doesn't Sleep

Less Sleep costs [2] per 1 less hour you need to sleep per day. It's capped at 4 levels for some reason (not sure why exactly).

Doesn't Sleep costs [20] and then you just don't need to sleep at all. Assuming you allowed Less Sleep at higher than 4 levels, Less Sleep 8 costs [16], and removes the full 8 hours needed per day to sleep.

It feels like something "extra" either must be included in Doesn't Sleep, or else it's a legacy point cost thing.

I mention the legacy thing because Doesn't Sleep seems more reasonably valued if we compare it to the 3rd Ed cost of Less Sleep, which was [3] per 1 less hour of sleep, which if you ignored the cap at 5 levels from 3rd (for some reason they lowered the cap to 4 in 4th), then Less Sleep 8 costs [24]. Doesn't Sleep costs the same in both editions.

Is there something extra that's worth that extra [4] in Doesn't Sleep [20] vs Less Sleep 8 [16]? Like an immunity to sleep effects? Or is it just one of those things?
__________________
-JC
JCurwen3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2011, 11:11 AM   #2
Figleaf23
Banned
 
Figleaf23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Default Re: Cost of Less Sleep vs Doesn't Sleep

Many builds where the idea of being put to sleep is not really compatible appear to have Doesn't Sleep as the sole trait relating to their absense of sleep, so I would say by implication, that Doesn't Sleep does include immunity to being put to sleep.
Figleaf23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2011, 11:13 AM   #3
Not another shrubbery
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Default Re: Cost of Less Sleep vs Doesn't Sleep

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCurwen3 View Post
Is there something extra that's worth that extra [4] in Doesn't Sleep [20] vs Less Sleep 8 [16]? Like an immunity to sleep effects? Or is it just one of those things?
I've always played that Doesn't Sleep was the de facto equivalent of Immunity to sleep, but I think part of the discrepancy might be an assumption that Less Sleep would be more valuable if extended past level four.
Not another shrubbery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2011, 11:31 AM   #4
Nyarli
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Ukhta, Russia
Default Re: Cost of Less Sleep vs Doesn't Sleep

Transhuman Space drugs allow 5 levels of Doesn't Sleep.
Nyarli is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2011, 11:40 AM   #5
Kromm
GURPS Line Editor
 
Kromm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
Default Re: Cost of Less Sleep vs Doesn't Sleep

Doesn't Sleep does indeed include immunity to sleep-causing effects. Think of it as Less Sleep 8 [16] + Immunity (One specific item) [5], rounded to a nice 20 points because there's a little overlap and most people are pentaphiles.
__________________
Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com>
GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games
My DreamWidth [Just GURPS News]
Kromm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2011, 11:43 AM   #6
ULFGARD
 
ULFGARD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Seattle
Default Re: Cost of Less Sleep vs Doesn't Sleep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Doesn't Sleep does indeed include immunity to sleep-causing effects. Think of it as Less Sleep 8 [16] + Immunity (One specific item) [5], rounded to a nice 20 points because there's a little overlap and most people are pentaphiles.
So that makes it sound like Less Sleep could go up to 8 levels, the 8th meaning that the PC doesn't require sleep. Which might be nice, given that there are people who get by quite nicely on 2 or 3 hours a night.
__________________
Seven Kingdoms, MH (as yet unnamed), and my "pick-up" DF game war stories, characters, and other ruminations can be found here.
ULFGARD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2011, 12:25 PM   #7
JCurwen3
 
JCurwen3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Default Re: Cost of Less Sleep vs Doesn't Sleep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Doesn't Sleep does indeed include immunity to sleep-causing effects. Think of it as Less Sleep 8 [16] + Immunity (One specific item) [5], rounded to a nice 20 points because there's a little overlap and most people are pentaphiles.
Thanks for the reply, good to know!
__________________
-JC
JCurwen3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2011, 12:49 PM   #8
Bruno
 
Bruno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Default Re: Cost of Less Sleep vs Doesn't Sleep

Quote:
Originally Posted by ULFGARD View Post
So that makes it sound like Less Sleep could go up to 8 levels, the 8th meaning that the PC doesn't require sleep. Which might be nice, given that there are people who get by quite nicely on 2 or 3 hours a night.
"Quite nicely" is very much a relative term. A manic-depressive in a manic phase will cheerfully go with 2-3 hrs of sleep, but you can't really say they're in a "normal" state of mind while they're doing it.

But there's certainly nothing wrong with the price, and pushing sleep requirements down to one hour for nonhumans, or "no hours but still vulnerable to sleep effects" for enhanced/modified humans seems reasonable. I wouldn't give nonhumans who have never needed sleep "Less Sleep 8" - It would hurt my brain to figure out why they can be "put" to sleep but don't sleep on their own.
__________________
All about Size Modifier; Unified Hit Location Table
A Wiki for my F2F Group
A neglected GURPS blog
Bruno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2011, 01:13 PM   #9
Tuoni
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Canada
Default Re: Cost of Less Sleep vs Doesn't Sleep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
"Quite nicely" is very much a relative term. A manic-depressive in a manic phase will cheerfully go with 2-3 hrs of sleep, but you can't really say they're in a "normal" state of mind while they're doing it.

But there's certainly nothing wrong with the price, and pushing sleep requirements down to one hour for nonhumans, or "no hours but still vulnerable to sleep effects" for enhanced/modified humans seems reasonable. I wouldn't give nonhumans who have never needed sleep "Less Sleep 8" - It would hurt my brain to figure out why they can be "put" to sleep but don't sleep on their own.

I seem to remember whales are active 24/7 because half their brain can sleep while the other remains active. An external cause for sleep like drugs would probably (I'm no biologist) affect both sides though.

So Less Sleep 8 would make sense for a Were-Whale. :P
Tuoni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2011, 01:16 PM   #10
Bruno
 
Bruno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
Default Re: Cost of Less Sleep vs Doesn't Sleep

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuoni View Post
I seem to remember whales are active 24/7 because half their brain can sleep while the other remains active. An external cause for sleep like drugs would probably (I'm no biologist) affect both sides though.

So Less Sleep 8 would make sense for a Were-Whale. :P
Cetacians aren't "sleeping" the way we think of it, but they're "stupid" and have very simple behaviors when they do that. They're functioning at an IQ penalty, a perception penalty, and generally sluggish. They have to "wake up" when they're faced with a threat; otherwise a "sleeping" cetacian is mostly just hanging around and surfacing for air.

They may also have Less Sleep, but they've got a very limited version of Doesn't Sleep (Takes Stat Penalties Instead Of Sleeping).

I mean really - they do usually use both halves of their brain. They NOTICE when half of it is offline :)
__________________
All about Size Modifier; Unified Hit Location Table
A Wiki for my F2F Group
A neglected GURPS blog
Bruno is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
doesn't sleep, less sleep, sleep

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.