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03-22-2013, 04:26 PM | #1 |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Face & Neck location damage multiplier
Ok I've been thinking about this, and i'm struggling to get the justification for why there's such limited additional damage for targeting these locations (necks not as bad as face though).
On thing I'm leaving aside the 1 in 6 chance of getting the artery/vital etc as there is an equivalent of this for most locations in MA. First of all neck, , this is a small area thats pretty full of high value objects. Also there's not much in there protecting them. Certainly when compared to the torso which has comparable injury multipliers except for cutting and crushing. More over it doesn't even get a knock down mod. I.e it's treated as vulnerable to injury as the torso except against ct & cr attacks. This doesn't seem right, if nothing else a bullet/arrow/spear to the throat/neck would seem to me to be worse than one to the torso? I'm not advocating a straight x4 brain hit multiplier, as I guess its possible to manage to miss the major blood vessels, airway, spinal column and cord etc, but I think the odds of doing all that are higher enough to warrant an extra +1 to all multipliers (and maybe making cutting x3). If nothing else if a 4pt cutting attack on a St10 arm is enough to cripple it beyond use, what's that going to do to a neck? Now the face, Now I can see that there's not actually much in the face that if its damaged it will immediately threaten your life (unlike the neck), my main issue is that there really isn't that much of the face in front of the really important stuff. Or put it this way a spear thrust to the face doesn't have to be very strong before its hitting the brain, top of the spinal chord or lots of blood vessels etc, etc. While you could argue that this is more a point for thrusting attacks, I'd say its true of cutting attacks as well because only a pretty superficial (i.e low damage roll) with a sword is going to stay just in the face and not go deeper. Consequently again I'd add an extra +1 to all multipliers, except corrosive which I'd keep at x1.5 and cr which I'd keep at x1. Again if a 4pt hit from a sword can cripple an ST10 arm or a leg, what's that going to do swung into your face? The face does at least have a hefty knockdown mod, which I guess you could argue is enough of a penalty in terms of the overall result of a combat given what happens the next round when you're -4 to defend. Now I know sometimes the over penetration of torso rules from HT are quoted as something that makes neck and face hits comparatively worse. However I'd argue that is designed more to make large wounds to the torso more survivable rather then make such wounds to the neck and face less survivable. One last thing I would probably also argue that the neck should -6 to hit and thus a harder target than the face because yes while the face is a more mobile target, the neck is smaller one and a more difficult one due to the flinching and reactions of the body (think how naturally you lower your chin or dip your shoulder, or otherwise retract it to protect it). Anyway am I over thinking this, is this just a game balance thing (i'd argue the hit mods take care of that) and GURPS doesn't strike me as the kind of system where game balance overrules effect completely, otherwise why have locations at all. Any thoughts? Cheers TD Last edited by Tomsdad; 03-23-2013 at 02:31 AM. |
03-22-2013, 04:38 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Re: Face & Neck location damage multiplier
Face gives a 1/6 chance of getting the brain with penetrating attacks. And enhanced knockdown which is a pretty big deal.
I think neck actually has more wounding modifiers than that? But I could be wrong. It does have nastier bleeding. And the spine. (See Martial Arts for wounding rules enhancements.)
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03-22-2013, 04:43 PM | #3 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
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Re: Face & Neck location damage multiplier
People get shot, stabbed, and punched in the face on a pretty regular basis. It's not lethal. Your face is very much like a crumple-zone for the "important" part of your head ie your brain.
A broken nose, crushed cheekbones, fractures around the sinuses, lost teeth, or even a broken jaw isn't going to kill you. It will make you miserable but that's different. Similarly, getting shot in the face isn't (necessarily) a big deal. What's a big deal is having the bullet go through the face into the brain, but that's not guarenteed and only possible for attacks from the front to the rear - attacks from the side can pass entirely through your face without striking anything even remotely vital (through one cheek and out the other, for example). Even from the front, a bullet (or arrow) can go through the face and out the back of the head spending the entire time below the skull and to the side of the spine and never risking either. The arteries are more at risk from this sort of shot, but depending on your fat or muscle levels, there's a decent chance even the arteries will be missed.
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03-23-2013, 03:22 PM | #4 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: Face & Neck location damage multiplier
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03-23-2013, 03:31 PM | #5 | |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
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Re: Face & Neck location damage multiplier
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Nothing more rigorous that I can find off the top of my head, but "attractiveness" is such a nebulous concept that it's hard to come up with hard-and-fast rules - it's also so heavily culture-bound that they'd never be generic.
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03-23-2013, 03:36 PM | #6 |
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Canada
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Re: Face & Neck location damage multiplier
One of my co-workers has a prominent ear-to-ear scar, as a memento from one of his extended series of very bad room-mates.
He was another case of "walked into the ER complaining loudly about the guy who did it", and he's got neither protective fat nor protective muscle - he's just skinny and stubborn. The ears are of course another part of the face where getting them taken off in a fight really is just a flesh wound. It's not even a major impediment to your hearing, although if you wear glasses it's hugely inconvenient.
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03-24-2013, 05:31 AM | #7 | |
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: Face & Neck location damage multiplier
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But we aren't talking about "attractiveness" we're talking about scarring and mutilation. We aren't asking if a woman's beauty is improved by being Hollywood thin or 17th century Rubenesque, we're asking what effect does having half your teeth smashed out with a mace, or having one side of your face caved in (symmetry does seem to be a constant in beauty). Are there any cultures that find missing teeth and uncontrolled combat scars attractive? |
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03-22-2013, 08:46 PM | #8 | |
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Re: Face & Neck location damage multiplier
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It's also a major wound, which means a hit to the face is forcing a knockdown/out roll at -5. Failure stuns, failure by 5 KOs. Even a single point of injury to the face forces a knockdown/out roll at the same odds as slicing off their arm. That seems like a good place for it, to me. A hit to the head that doesn't damage the neck or brain isn't going to do a lot of life-threatening damage (HP loss), but it's going to HURT. |
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03-22-2013, 11:06 PM | #9 |
GURPS Line Editor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
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Re: Face & Neck location damage multiplier
What makes the neck, specifically, a nasty target is several things:
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03-23-2013, 02:14 AM | #10 | |||||||||||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Face & Neck location damage multiplier
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are you saying that wounds to the face and neck are when all else is equal just as dangerous as hits to the torso? However although I'm thinking of keeping the x1 mod for cr, to avoid fist fights ending in death after a few punches, and to show the crumple zone effect you mention. Cr damage covers such a wide range of damage sources. Quote:
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look at this side on MRI look at what's behind the soft palette Quote:
Basically yes i agree you can get a hit to the face that passes through and doesn't hit something major (it exits the body before it gets chance) and yes people to survive getting shot in the face with bullets following the line of skull or getting lodged in the cavities etc. However in general I think you are lucky to get one of these results rather than unlucky not to get one. I.e the opposite from torso hits. Quote:
Basically a 3pt spear thrust is major wound to a St10 arm or leg rendering them useless, what do we think that look like in a neck or face. Last edited by Tomsdad; 03-23-2013 at 02:45 AM. |
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