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Old 10-21-2017, 12:53 PM   #2811
Astromancer
 
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Default Re: New Reality Seeds

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Originally Posted by fchase8 View Post
What is the current year? 1990s?
1989, but if you prefer 1990 it's your game.

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Also, it's hard to have a world accessible to both Centrum and Reich-5. Centrum can't go below Quantum Six, while Reich-5 is limited to Quantum Three.
The Chronoband, or whatever Rheich-5's interdimenional road is called, loops by a world highly similar to this one. Their Black Fever killed all but 0.1% of the people. The Reich-5 bases hunts the few survivors for sport.

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Given the 'government rebuilds the world after chaos' nature of this timeline, it seems closer to Centrum, Quantum Seven.
This world is Q6. It has mana enough for the Cabal to operate.


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Infinity expects Centrum, even The Cabal, but not Reich-5 on a Q7 world. Once Raven Division is encountered, I-Cops have to try to keep them and Interworld from ever meeting!
Interworld had met the Reich-5 goons. They are disgusted.

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Communism might have collapsed, but not socialism. The government is something great, not to be feared. Population loss gives labor power (even in untouched places like America & Australia, since there's no Old World labor masses to compete). And reconstruction is government-led (both native government & American).
Sound analysis. This world is mainly socialist, it is also highly democratic in most areas.

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New Deal social democracy would be the norm. As would national health care, since health care in general would have been taken over by the government during the Black Fever.
You got it.

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Could right-wingers find a home in Australia (and maybe New Zealand)? Those states were also spared the Black Fever, likely by closing off all immigration. Thus they remain almost entirely white, and view outsiders (primarily Asians) as a menace. And Britain and even America would have little influence.
Culturally both nations are wrong for seriously nasty right-wing movements. New Zealander commitment to fairness, and Aussie commitment to egalitarianism both mess up fascist movements.

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How does Latin America fare? Is it able to keep out the Black Fever, or is it too hot and not advanced enough to do so? Certainly Caribbean would be hit.
At first the Ocean protects them. They get the big hit in the 1950's. Those governments that go social-democratic get the plagues under control. Does that don't, go under.

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If the Black Fever makes it to Mexico, it would be a lot harder to keep it out of the U.S. Perhaps the Mexican government allows Norteamericano help in stopping the spread of the disease, drawing the three countries together, while everywhere between Chiapas and Patagonia gets infected.

With Mexico as part of the rebuilding effort in Latin America, it could take the edge off of anti-Americanism there.
You understand the main points. The culture of Mexico, like all of Latin America changed, but found wholesome ways to stay the same.

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On the flip side, American Jews sponsor Old World Jewish settlement in empty Holy Land. Between Nazis, plague fears, and plain old-fashioned anti-Semitism, Europe and the Middle Eastern states aren't hospitable to Jews, but they've got a big friend in the American government.

Israel/Palestine could have experienced not just the Black Fever really badly, but also apocalyptic chaos (end of the world cults, religious fighting, etc.). And not only does American liberals want to help the Jewish people, American conservatives want Westerners in control of the Holy Land (indeed, the idea of Jews moving to Israel is part of the 'end times Christianity' that grew with the Black Fever apocalypse).

Israel never got off the ground. The world's Jews mainly fled to America and America dealt with its anti-Semitism much like in our world.


A note on Mana in this parallel. This is a world of VERY LOW MANA. There are areas were the mana level isn't as low as normal low mana, but they are rare, 10% of the global surface and in small parcels. However, the Moon effects all Mana on this world. Just having the Moon in the sky reduced the penalty by one. Thus an area were the spell penalty is -8 is -7 if the New Moon is in the sky. New Moon +1, Crescent +2, Half+3, Gibbous +4, Full +5. The Eclipse is +10.

If the penalty is reduced to zero or becomes positive, the areas has normal mana. If the area become +4 or more, High Mana. The Cabal knows the local lunar calendar very well indeed.
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Old 10-21-2017, 12:56 PM   #2812
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Default Re: New Reality Seeds

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Originally Posted by robkelk View Post
And that removes the last of the obvious causes of the Civil Rights Movement in OTL. How did it get started in this alternate?
The Civil Rights Movement got started before the American Civil War. It was ongoing in this world too.
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Old 10-21-2017, 06:21 PM   #2813
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Default Re: New Reality Seeds

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Originally Posted by Astromancer View Post
The Chronoband, or whatever Rheich-5's interdimenional road is called, loops by a world highly similar to this one. Their Black Fever killed all but 0.1% of the people. The Reich-5 bases hunts the few survivors for sport.
So does that world, the one where almost everyone was wiped out, connect to this world, where the virus was eventually handled? How does Reich-5 access a Quantum Six world?

I believe the Chronobahn just goes through Quantum Three.

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Originally Posted by Astromancer View Post
Interworld had met the Reich-5 goons. They are disgusted.
They probably would be, but Infinity wouldn't know that, and would be scared out of all proportion or likelihood of a Centrum-Reich team-up.

And, to be fair, the dialogue at the start of the section on Centrum in GURPS Infinite Worlds has a Centran agent liking the idea of teaming up with/supporting Nazis, just to mess with Infinity (though that appears to be Reich-2).

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Originally Posted by Astromancer View Post
Culturally both nations are wrong for seriously nasty right-wing movements. New Zealander commitment to fairness, and Aussie commitment to egalitarianism both mess up fascist movements.
Certainly New Zealand would be hard, but fascists could try to stir up racism to 'pave the way' for fascism. Probably unsuccessfully, but would still be a problem.

it is tough to turn the 'libertarian anarchist' militia-type racism into support for a powerful government (no matter how racist it would be).

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Originally Posted by Astromancer View Post
At first the Ocean protects them. They get the big hit in the 1950's. Those governments that go social-democratic get the plagues under control. Does that don't, go under.
Perhaps the 'southern cone' of Chile, Argentina, and Uruguay hold off the Black Fever, while it wrecks everywhere north. But it still would be hard to keep the disease at bay, no matter how social-democratic.

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You understand the main points. The culture of Mexico, like all of Latin America changed, but found wholesome ways to stay the same.
The United States working with Mexico could not only reduce anti-Americanism in Mexico, but also anti-Mexicanism, anti-Hispanic racism in the U.S.
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Old 10-22-2017, 01:09 AM   #2814
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Default Re: New Reality Seeds

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it is tough to turn the 'libertarian anarchist' militia-type racism into support for a powerful government (no matter how racist it would be).
Not sure it’s that hard. In practice, people who profess to hate “big government” often seem very happy to give government a lot of power, provided that the government promises to use it to hurt the “right” other people.
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Old 10-22-2017, 12:13 PM   #2815
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Default Re: New Reality Seeds

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Not sure it’s that hard. In practice, people who profess to hate “big government” often seem very happy to give government a lot of power, provided that the government promises to use it to hurt the “right” other people.
Or, alternatively, to give them the things they, themselves, think they're entitled to have. For instance, most farmers in Colorado steadfastly vote for the GOP, but the minute you start talking about reductions to farm subsidies....
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Old 10-22-2017, 04:27 PM   #2816
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Default Re: New Reality Seeds

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Originally Posted by Phil Masters View Post
Not sure it’s that hard. In practice, people who profess to hate “big government” often seem very happy to give government a lot of power, provided that the government promises to use it to hurt the “right” other people.
Yeah, but the more power a government gets, even one that you like, it's gonna start stepping on your toes. And/or screwing up - especially as the fascist state types aren't the greatest actual administrators.

It really takes a failing of the current government, support from some current power players (like big business, church, media, etc.), and/or outside events to switch the anarchist racism into big government racism. And the Australian government on this world seems to be competent (kept the Black Fever at bay).

It could definitely be a strain that's a perennial worry, even threat, but never actually takes over.
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Old 10-22-2017, 04:29 PM   #2817
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Default Re: New Reality Seeds

Try this idea. I'm taking it from a posting I made on another thread. Serpent people from a reality outside of the quantum known to Homeline and Centrum, break into a Q4 parallel strongly similar to Homeline in the year 1895.

These Serpent People bring plauges and fell beasts to crush humanity. However, like Well's Martians, the Serpent People get a microbial surprise. They fail at conqest but shatter both the Earth's governments and their own.

It is now the year 1957.The world has experienced warming and the seas are rising, sea level is up 25 feet. Sea level is raising about four feet every ten years at this time. The present population is around 300 million. The world is a steampunk post-apocalyptic world of magic and steam tech. Conan and Krull meet After London and
Things to Come.

More later...

I will include needed links and notes on tech and magic.
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Old 10-22-2017, 05:14 PM   #2818
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Default Re: New Reality Seeds

You know what I've never seen? An alternate history about a setting where <major war> was cut short, with the same people winning...but before Christmas. What would be the consequences of the American Civil War, or World War I or World War II (or whatever they'd be called) being quick and easy victories for the United States, or France/Britain. Admittedly a quick and easy World War I for the Entente is pretty beyond imagining.
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Old 10-22-2017, 06:48 PM   #2819
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You know what I've never seen? An alternate history about a setting where <major war> was cut short, with the same people winning...but before Christmas. What would be the consequences of the American Civil War, or World War I or World War II (or whatever they'd be called) being quick and easy victories for the United States, or France/Britain. Admittedly a quick and easy World War I for the Entente is pretty beyond imagining.
A more aggressive France with good intelligence and the assistance of England could pose a serious threat to German military ambitions, not sure what would be needed to win the war by Xmas though. Maybe Stalin pre-emptively launches the attack on Germany that Hitler feared? The Red Army was seriously useless at the time though.

But a quick WWII would have absolutely vast implications. Say Germany is swiftly defeated; Japan is somehow quickly beaten as well (maybe they get into it with the Soviets and the US).

Britain isn't beggared and probably hangs onto the empire for another 20 years or so; US cultural hegemony takes a lot longer to bite; war tech is delayed significantly along with computers and rocketry which affects the space race and current personal computer revolution; Europe is a lot less committed to never fighting another war; the Soviets don't swallow half of Europe which damned the east to decades of economic oblivion; the Middle East looks very different; no Israel; no UN etc. etc.
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Old 10-22-2017, 07:59 PM   #2820
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...Admittedly a quick and easy World War I for the Entente is pretty beyond imagining.
Challenge accepted, although I admit it is still pretty improbable.

It is hard to imagine the British and French able to defeat Germany by Christmas, but if the Russian Army had mobilized even faster than it did and the Battle of Tannenberg had been a massive Russian victory, destroying the eastern German army, then the Russians might have been able to end the war early. Granted, an early Russian victory would require a lot of luck on the part of the Russians. If this Russian victory is combined with a large British naval victory destroying most of the Imperial German Navy, then Germany might be demoralized enough to sue for peace.

After such a victory, I think that there would be some small exchange of land, but the pre-war map would stay largely intact. Germany would loose Alsace-Lorraine, Austria looses control of some of the Balkans, and maybe the British pick up Togoland or German East Africa. However the German, Austrian-Hungarian, Russian, and Ottoman Empires survive intact. Reform movements in Austria and Turkey would gain support after the defeat. Perhaps there are some minor reforms by Atatürk, and the Austro-Hungarian Empire becomes a triple monarchy of the Austro-Polish-Hungarian Empire. In Russia, however, the Czar's strength grows after their victory, and any Bolshevik are sent to Siberia.

Much like the after the Franco-Prussian war, after this war the belligerents would immediately start preparing for the next big war (which isn't so different from our history). This next war will probably happen soon because all the causes of WWI are still there. Who takes part in the next war and what it is be about is fluid---personally I like a German, Austro-Hungarian-Polish, Russian, and Ottoman alliance against the US, France, Britain, and Japan sparked over competing Japanese and Russian interests in Manchuria.
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