Selling organs, and regeneration

[Tomsdad]

Hang on I may be missing something here as I don't use Magic very much, but are we talking about:

Step 1: get organ removed
Step 2: Cast regeneration on self regrowing the removed organ
Step 3: Repeat

erm what's the FP cost and casting needs and times for the regeneration spell, what are the penalties for casting a spell while missing an internal organ?

How good is the surgeon who's removed the organ, how many FP will you be down having undergone organ removal surgery!?

There seems to be a high risk with several rather serious failure points! (it's going to depend on what organs were talking about I guess) Is there some kind of clever contingency spell set up here.

On the keeping a low profile point, I think you'll lose that when you keep coming back to the organ harvesters for repeat operations "er yeah I was born with 3 kidneys, you must have missed it last time, can I have a red lollipop this time".


I#ll be honest I'm reminded of the story line in KODT of Vecna's hand (or even Vecna's head)!

[Anaraxes]

The OP doesn't specify the setting assumption for frequency of powers. But if regeneration magic is at all accessible, there won't be a black market for organ transplants, because it's easier for the recipients just to have theirs regenerated if something goes wrong. (Transplant surgeons and hospital facilities aren't really common or cheap, either.) You'd only need transplants for problems that magic couldn't heal. Low demand, high supply, means low prices, if there's a market at all.

[WaterAndWindSpirit]

Originally Posted by Tomsdad

On the keeping a low profile point, I think you'll lose that when you keep coming back to the organ harvesters for repeat operations "er yeah I was born with 3 kidneys, you must have missed it last time, can I have a red lollipop this time".

Just get a surgeon who is already in the know about magic and appreciates the added secrecy over a more overt organ harvest. Also, it really depends how common regeneration magic is. If only the equivalent of a mid-high level cleric/Favored Soul can do it, you may be looking at a market and keep a lower profile than performing miracle healing overtly.

Or train said cleric/FvS equivalent in surgery and give the brave volunteers (who are also already aware) a cut of the profits. Even if they rat on you, if you're careful enough it could work, and they're unlikely in the first place because whatever the police can charge you with, they'd have to admit to being accomplices. They'd also probably be afraid of being thrown into the loony bin if they admit that you harvest organs from them and then use magic to regrow them, especially if the healing magic leaves no scar.

[Tomsdad]

What's the actual spell you're using here anyway regeneration only works on limbs and eyes I think? Is there another spell or does it work differently in different magic system from the standard one

[Flyndaran]

OP said, "access to a spell" without specifying. So I'd think it was one created for the setting. Otherwise, removing a heart, for example, is just straight up auto-death in Gurps. So by RAW, it would take a resurrection type spell to do anything, I think. But Magic is my weakest Gurps "subject", so don't quote me.

Partial liver donations would work as those naturally regenerate, and spells could make complete organs nice and fast.

[WaterAndWindSpirit]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

OP said, "access to a spell" without specifying. So I'd think it was one created for the setting. Otherwise, removing a heart, for example, is just straight up auto-death in Gurps. So by RAW, it would take a resurrection type spell to do anything, I think. But Magic is my weakest Gurps "subject", so don't quote me.

Partial liver donations would work as those naturally regenerate, and spells could make complete organs nice and fast.

Basically I would think about a a spell that does something similar to the Regeneration advantage for it's duration.

As far as removing the heart goes, it's an auto death but not an instant death, a fast acting enough Regeneration could work, and especially if you have some kind spell that can preserve the body from damage for like a minute. Also, it's in a setting where your body needs to be dead for 47 seconds before you are truly dead, more than enough time to cast powerful healing spells if you know them.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Originally Posted by WaterAndWindSpirit

If you don't care at all about keeping a somewhat low profile, sure.

Oh, I'm sure that a bunch of identical organs showing up on the market out of nowhere won't raise any suspicion at all.

Originally Posted by WaterAndWindSpirit

Basically I would think about a a spell that does something similar to the Regeneration advantage for it's duration.

Also Regrowth.


Most of the big points have already come up—how common is healing magic, what's the local masquerade like, why not just regrow organs directly, etc. I'd like to throw in the suggestion of selling the regenerated organs to biomedical labs. There's always a demand for homogeneous sets of test subjects, and testing on the same person's liver 20 times would be pretty dang homogeneous. Plus, even in a setting with abundant healing magic, it's plausible that people willing to have their organs repeatedly harvested for science! would be scarce. Masquerade settings would be a bit trickier, but I'm sure a dedicated black marketeer could find some kind of illegal (or questionably-legal) laboratory that could use the organs.
Less profitable bit more fun: Use your own severed limbs and transplanted organs to create the world's most homogeneous flesh golem!

[Railstar]

Black market organ prices according to Bio-tech.

$30 000 for healthy vital organ (heart, lung, kidney).
$15 000 for arms and legs.
$3000-6000 for eyes, genitalia or secondary organs.
$1000-3000 for fingers or ears or mostly cosmetic pieces.

Those are retail prices. Buyers pay 10-60% of that. Let’s use the mean average of 35% for convenience sake. About a third, to make the maths easier.

Calculating the mean of everything, assuming rotating organs, but nothing the donor cannot do without (no vital organs) that means $21000, divided by 3 to account for the rotation (unless you want to be missing multiple organs at once) = $7000, then divided by 3 again to account for the buyer = $2333.

Regeneration takes a month to regrow the whole limb, so selling one organ per month should net you an income of $2333 a month.

If you want to be hardcore masochist and sell multiple body parts every month, I would say that saturating the market with identical body parts or identical matches would halve prices. I’d rule half prices if you’re selling 3 or more, or two-thirds if you’re selling 2 organs per month.

So 2 organs = $3120 a month.
3 organs = $3500 a month

For context, at TL 8, average income = $2600 a month.
Comfortable income = $5200 a month.

This is not including costs associated with being without major body parts on a regular basis. You might have to pay a carer, or have a dialysis machine, or something similar. Those can cost an arm and a leg.

Sorry, I had to throw that pun in there somewhere.

Now Regeneration, the spell, gives ONE try. So a critical fail on the job roll will have fairly obvious consequences – you lose a body part permanently.

Instant Regeneration is, well, instant, but with an energy cost of 80, so the frequency will be limited by how often you can raise the energy cost. An Energy Cost of 20 can be met with fatigue points + Ceremonial Magic. An energy cost of 80 will require a lot more in the way of power sources to support.

Overall, not the best moneymaking scheme. Very high risk, low reward.

Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold

Oh, I'm sure that a bunch of identical organs showing up on the market out of nowhere won't raise any suspicion at all.

Compared to the trade of human organs in general? Probably not, at least not drawing the same level of immediate attention easily traced back to you. I figure most black market organ dealers would hide where they get their human organs from.

So yeah, people might look into it, but at least there'd be several walls of secrecy between investigators and you.

However, I do have this hilarious mental image of an evil wizard finding out about this business and literally buying chunks of the healer-mage to use in ceremonial magic... I'm going to create a life-sized voodoo doll of you out of your own organs. :D

[WaterAndWindSpirit]

Sorry to bump this old thread, but a new campaign I've started had me wondering about another possibility:

Regrowth + Regeneration (The 1 Hp regenerated per hour version), magical in nature and non transferrable, along with a friendly surgeon, may allow for some extra funding for weapons, miscellaneous supplies, or magical components.

When "Regrowth" says that the regeneration takes the time it takes to heal to full HP, I assume it means "from whatever HP total you were dropped to by the injury that took an organ away", so what HP total are you assumed to have dropped to from surgery to take your organs? And by that I mean, if you have Regrowth (your organs regrow on their own) and the Regeneration that heals 1 HP per hour, how long would it take for you to regrow a kidney or a lung? How well would you function with only one of these two anyways?

For that matters, what about selling blood? I assume someone who can heal 24 times as fast as a regular person won't be running out of blood to sell very easily...

[Bengt]

Originally Posted by WaterAndWindSpirit

For that matters, what about selling blood? I assume someone who can heal 24 times as fast as a regular person won't be running out of blood to sell very easily...

How often fast does blood actually regenerate? I mean the official blood donor service here will call someone in at most every 12th week for 0.5 l. I assume that includes a huge safety margin, but the baseline x24 is still only 1 l per week, so it's hard to see this is as a real money maker.