What is murder?

[Khoontshdroos]

Who spoke about zombies in TS, somewhere, some days ago. Can't remind who...

[RelFexive]

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert

Oh, it's actually a fairly simple process:

1) Ghost technology becomes available.

2) The ultra-rich become interested in this technology as a way of living beyond their natural life span.

3) They lobby their local legislators to accept the ghost of a biosapient as the same legal entity so that they don't have to deal with inheritance hassles by going through the process.

4) The legislators are swayed by campaign donations and implement the relevant laws.

5) The ultra-rich go through destructive uploading and live happily ever after.

That is actually going to be the biggest driving force behind the legal and social acceptance that a ghost (or backup of a ghost or AI) is the same person as the original, isn't it? Good point.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by RelFexive

That is actually going to be the biggest driving force behind the legal and social acceptance that a ghost (or backup of a ghost or AI) is the same person as the original, isn't it? Good point.

I still balk at the idea of committing suicide so that something that thinks the same can come into existence.

[Jürgen Hubert]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I still balk at the idea of committing suicide so that something that thinks the same can come into existence.

You do. Others don't - even today.

I mean, I probably wouldn't do it either unless I was going to die anyway, but plenty of others are more willing to undergo the procedure. And who are we to prevent them from doing that?

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert

You do. Others don't - even today.

I mean, I probably wouldn't do it either unless I was going to die anyway, but plenty of others are more willing to undergo the procedure. And who are we to prevent them from doing that?

You don't feel that preventing suicides is almost always the correct path?
I find that a more frightening idea.

[Khoontshdroos]

Mmmm... Suicide or seek of immortality? As interested in Chinese Traditional Medicine, I fear having difficulties with the idea of ghost being the same of his wet original; but I'm curious to intent to figure the relationship between both in Chinese Medicine terms. One of the various reasons of the thread I proposed but what obviously don't interest anyone.

[Jürgen Hubert]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

You don't feel that preventing suicides is almost always the correct path?
I find that a more frightening idea.

If someone can prove to me that they thought long and hard about this and aren't just doing it out of the spur of the moment, then no, I don't see it as my business to prevent them from doing so.

It is their free choice, and I respect that - just as I expect others to respect my choices.

[Khoontshdroos]

Originally Posted by Jürgen Hubert

If someone can prove to me that they thought long and hard about this and aren't just doing it out of the spur of the moment, then no, I don't see it as my business to prevent them from doing so.

It is their free choice, and I respect that - just as I expect others to respect my choices.

Principaly I agree with you; it's close to the euthanasy question; but I still think that it were a kind of suicide, not thinking the neuronal order being the final answer to the self (a memetical illusion? ;) ).

[Phineas]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

I still balk at the idea of committing suicide so that something that thinks the same can come into existence.

Saying it's suicide is biochauvinist. If you come at the problem assuming identity lies in thought and the mind, it's simpler to swallow. You're taking your mind from a biological body to a digital one.

[Nelson Cunnington]

Originally Posted by Agemegos

And when technological improvement allows non-destructive upload? What are you doing then? What will it then seem in retrospect that people were doing with destructive uploads?

I don't see that that will change anyone's position. A therapeutic upload (say to avoid the effects of extreme aging) will have the same result, unless, for some umimaginable reason, you decide that you want your old body to continue on after you're uploaded into the new body. Embarrassing, to say the least.