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Old 09-18-2020, 07:40 AM   #1
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Quick question about UC II and above.

ITL41 says:
Evade. Hand weapon attacks from your front hexes are at -1, and damage done to you is reduced by 1 hit per attack.
Does the damage reduction apply only to hand weapon attacks from the front hexes or to all attacks? (I know the comma is trying to tell me something, but it's not clear what.)
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Old 09-18-2020, 08:21 AM   #2
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Quick question about UC II and above.

Like a lot of the technical rules, this one isn't clearly interpretable just based on parsing grammar. But my interpretation, given the context and other similar examples, is that the -1 damage modifier carries the same conditions as the -1 to-hit modifier. I.e., you only get it against hand weapon attacks through your front hex. If you want a more general natural damage reduction, take Toughness.
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Old 09-18-2020, 09:34 AM   #3
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Quick question about UC II and above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
Like a lot of the technical rules, this one isn't clearly interpretable just based on parsing grammar. But my interpretation, given the context and other similar examples, is that the -1 damage modifier carries the same conditions as the -1 to-hit modifier. I.e., you only get it against hand weapon attacks through your front hex. If you want a more general natural damage reduction, take Toughness.
Thanks. Makes sense to me.

I'm sure that comma is doing some work there, but I'm not sure what.
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Old 09-18-2020, 10:41 AM   #4
hcobb
 
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Pacheco, California
Default Re: Quick question about UC II and above.

Note by the wording on UC V that this is no defense against pole arm jabs.
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Old 09-18-2020, 10:59 AM   #5
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Quick question about UC II and above.

I notice there's a little inconsistency in UC III, where the evade is described as applying to melee attacks from the front hexes, not hand weapon attacks.

I wonder why evade doesn't work with unarmed attacks. Or does that count as "hand weapon"?
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Old 09-18-2020, 01:09 PM   #6
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Quick question about UC II and above.

Personally, I treat all non-thrown, non-missile attacks as part of the same category with respect to these sorts of rules, so a jab is the same as a 'melee' weapon attack is the same as a melee unarmed attack and so forth. The narrowest reading of the rules would suggest some of these are handled differently from the others, but this leads to unnecessary fussiness in play (and feels like nonsense). See the discussion of the Defend action for another case where people have considered how to respond to peculiarities in the language uses in the rules.
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Old 09-18-2020, 01:16 PM   #7
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Quick question about UC II and above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
Personally, I treat all non-thrown, non-missile attacks as part of the same category with respect to these sorts of rules, so a jab is the same as a 'melee' weapon attack is the same as a melee unarmed attack and so forth. The narrowest reading of the rules would suggest some of these are handled differently from the others, but this leads to unnecessary fussiness in play (and feels like nonsense). See the discussion of the Defend action for another case where people have considered how to respond to peculiarities in the language uses in the rules.
I think that seems reasonable. Surely, a martial arts expert can dodge a fist or spear jab as easily as a sword. And, I suppose, he can evade a bite as well, though that one's a little less obvious to me.
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Old 09-18-2020, 10:11 PM   #8
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Quick question about UC II and above.

Huh? So, you guys think maybe Steve's intent was that only UC III protects against unarmed melee attacks, while UC II, IV and V only protect against hand weapon attacks but not unarmed attacks, because of wording?

$1000 says it's meant as all melee attacks.
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Old 09-18-2020, 10:26 PM   #9
phiwum
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Default Re: Quick question about UC II and above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Huh? So, you guys think maybe Steve's intent was that only UC III protects against unarmed melee attacks, while UC II, IV and V only protect against hand weapon attacks but not unarmed attacks, because of wording?

$1000 says it's meant as all melee attacks.
I think that Lars said it protects against all melee attacks and I agreed.

It would seem odd that a guy with UC talent wouldn't be able to defend against unarmed attacks. But I took the literal word until I heard other opinions.
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Old 09-18-2020, 10:55 PM   #10
Axly Suregrip
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Default Re: Quick question about UC II and above.

I also agree with the consensus that both the -1 DX and -1 damage apply to all melee attacks.

I am uncertain about 2 hex jabs.

Also keep in mind the evade can only be done by someone with both hands empty and armor no heavier than Cloth. As with all UC abilities.

It is these two restrictions to UC skills that make them pointless for me. A character with a high level of UC ability can be very dangerous but it is a long way to get there. In the meantime you are a low damage dealing and thin armored fighter. Brawling seems more useful if you are concerned you may not draw your dagger in time in HTH.

Last edited by Axly Suregrip; 09-18-2020 at 10:59 PM.
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