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Old 05-02-2014, 06:11 PM   #11
momothefiddler
 
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Default Re: [RPM] Altered Traits

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Originally Posted by McAllister View Post
I feel roughly the same way as Momo (although I wouldn't call the system "distressing", personally).
Oh dear. I didn't at all mean that the system as a whole was distressing! Just the imprecision in the distinction between "is fine with just Effects" and "requires Altered Traits". Plus, like you said:

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Ritual Path Magic is so fantastically flexible that adding an Altered Trait cost to most rituals doesn't really make it less appealing to me.
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Old 05-02-2014, 06:37 PM   #12
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: [RPM] Altered Traits

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Originally Posted by momothefiddler View Post
Mmm... alright.

I still don't particularly understand it, and I'm guessing I'll end up adding Altered Traits to more things than I have to (If you can't strengthen a body with just Strengthen Body, my instinct is to not let you sense a mind with just Sense Mind, and that instinct goes against RAW), but that's okay.
It can be hard, but once you have more experience you get a instinct for it. Also, look at spell write-ups in supplements (or my blog) for some ideas on what should be what.

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Originally Posted by momothefiddler View Post
Oh dear. I didn't at all mean that the system as a whole was distressing! Just the imprecision in the distinction between "is fine with just Effects" and "requires Altered Traits". Plus, like you said:
I didn't take it that way. :)

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I guess my question is, regarding Ghostdancer's third bullet point, is what does Strengthen Body (for example) do? The only options I see are that it add bonus to physical activities, which uses the Bonuses and Penalties effect, or that it increases physical stats like Basic Move or ST, which uses Altered Traits. Heck, I think I'd even build Greater Control Mind as Mind Control, and throw modifiers on it to represent the limitations of the spell (maybe a flat -80% for one shot, similar to how Favor is a one-shot Contact for 20% of the price).
Yes, the Mind Control thing has been proposed before and I'm staunchly against it in most cases. The sole exception being if the caster is trying to cast a spell (not a charm or any other conditional spell) to let someone else control another's will. That said what does Strengthen Body do? Well it could increase a target's sperm count/ovulation cycle to ensure pregnancy. It could increase a target's ability to heal by letting them use the rules for being attending to by a doctor without actually having a doctor. It could be used to put a protective casting around a plant seed to ensure it's survival through the winter. It could be used to make a a harvest more bountiful. I could go on.
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Old 05-05-2014, 12:09 PM   #13
McAllister
 
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Default Re: [RPM] Altered Traits

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...That said what does Strengthen Body do? Well it could increase a target's sperm count/ovulation cycle to ensure pregnancy. It could increase a target's ability to heal by letting them use the rules for being attending to by a doctor without actually having a doctor. It could be used to put a protective casting around a plant seed to ensure it's survival through the winter. It could be used to make a a harvest more bountiful. I could go on.
You could go on, couldn't you? Those are very good examples, and I couldn't use any recognizable form of an Altered Trait to represent a single one of 'em.

Regarding the Control Mind/Mind Control thing, I'm happy to agree to disagree. The best part is that neither opinion need hinder the play of the other.

P.S. I realized upon review that "you could go on, couldn't you" might read as a snide comment, which it isn't. I meant it to suggest that, RPM being very flexible and you being very familiar with it, you're able to come up with loads of applications that wouldn't occur to me.
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Old 05-05-2014, 12:39 PM   #14
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Default Re: [RPM] Altered Traits

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Regarding the Control Mind/Mind Control thing, I'm happy to agree to disagree. The best part is that neither opinion need hinder the play of the other.
To override one, specific, targeted person's thoughts completely for as long as you're concentrating on them, use Greater Control Mind. To be able to look at people and take over their minds and condition them and all that good stuff, use Altered Traits: Mind Control.
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Old 05-05-2014, 12:40 PM   #15
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: [RPM] Altered Traits

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You could go on, couldn't you? Those are very good examples, and I couldn't use any recognizable form of an Altered Trait to represent a single one of 'em.

Regarding the Control Mind/Mind Control thing, I'm happy to agree to disagree. The best part is that neither opinion need hinder the play of the other.

P.S. I realized upon review that "you could go on, couldn't you" might read as a snide comment, which it isn't. I meant it to suggest that, RPM being very flexible and you being very familiar with it, you're able to come up with loads of applications that wouldn't occur to me.
Oh, I absolutely could. There are a ton of things that just don't need anything but a Spell Effect. As for agreeing to disagree - the best part about RPM is that it's a straight up Rule Zero system - the GM doesn't like how something works he can change it to what he does like. :-)
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Old 05-05-2014, 12:57 PM   #16
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Default Re: [RPM] Altered Traits

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Originally Posted by Dalillama View Post
To override one, specific, targeted person's thoughts completely for as long as you're concentrating on them, use Greater Control Mind. To be able to look at people and take over their minds and condition them and all that good stuff, use Altered Traits: Mind Control.
Actually, you could use another Greater Control Mind effect to condition them ala the conditioning enhancement for Mind Control.
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Old 05-05-2014, 01:05 PM   #17
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Default Re: [RPM] Altered Traits

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Actually, you could use another Greater Control Mind effect to condition them ala the conditioning enhancement for Mind Control.
OK. Point remains, though: To do it to one person, once, it's Control Mind, to do it in general it's Altered Traits.
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Old 05-05-2014, 01:07 PM   #18
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Default Re: [RPM] Altered Traits

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OK. Point remains, though: To do it to one person, once, it's Control Mind, to do it in general it's Altered Traits.
Welll....you could add Altered Traits for a large group of people... ;-)
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Old 05-05-2014, 01:12 PM   #19
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Default Re: [RPM] Altered Traits

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Welll....you could add Altered Traits for a large group of people... ;-)
To let someone else do it would always be Altered Traits, though. Control Mind wouldn't let you enable your friend Bob to control someone's mind. I suppose you could use a Control Mind effect on multiple people with Area Effect, so long as you were making them all do the same thing. I was just reading a book where the villain was doing something that would be modeled in just that way, actually. He was using magic (energy got from sacrificing people) to use a Greater Control Mind effect with Conditioning to make everyone like and respect him and react violently to anyone badmouthing him, in an ever-increasing area as he got more energy to pump into his spells.
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Old 05-05-2014, 01:27 PM   #20
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Default Re: [RPM] Altered Traits

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Originally Posted by McAllister View Post
You could go on, couldn't you? Those are very good examples, and I couldn't use any recognizable form of an Altered Trait to represent a single one of 'em.
Challenge accepted! ^_^
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...That said what does Strengthen Body do? Well it could increase a target's sperm count/ovulation cycle to ensure pregnancy.
Altered Trait: remove Sterility [0]. Other options include Metabolism Control (Ovrial-menstrual cycle only -80%) [1/level], Accessory (Sperm Bank) [1]. Parthenogenesis [1] allows to bypass the issue of fertilisation without a partner entirely.
(You could also use Bestows A Bonus to modify the conception chance, but I'd say that the base conception chance is a Feature [0] too.)
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It could increase a target's ability to heal by letting them use the rules for being attending to by a doctor without actually having a doctor.
That indeed is challenging, but seems like a variant trait somewhere between Rules Exemption and Extra Option. Iffy, I know.
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It could be used to put a protective casting around a plant seed to ensure it's survival through the winter.
Temperature Tolerance and DR. Extended Lifespan and Doesn't Eat or Drink if you want it to last really long. Or you can go the Metabolism Control path.
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It could be used to make a a harvest more bountiful.
Increased Fecundity [1].
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