Hit Location from Low-Tech

[Drone 5]

I have started to use the GURPS Low-Tech book and have notice some differences regarding Hit Locations as opposed to GURPS Basic. I always assume the later books override earlier ones thus Low-Tech overrides GURPS Basic. I very much enjoy RAW (Rules as Written) but I also understand RAI (Rules as Intended). So I have some questions.

Torso: OPTIONAL RULE in Low-Tech divides the Torso now into Chest and Abdomen. In the Basic book it states when you miss by 1 when attacking the Eye, Skull, Face, Groin, Neck, or Vital hits the Torso instead. Does that now change to Chest instead?

Abdomen: OPTIONAL RULE in In Low-Tech the Abdomen has become Hit Location 11 where as in Basic that was the Groin. In Basic it stated that a miss my 1 hits the Torso instead,(now Chest in Low-Tech), does that mean an Abdomen attack that misses by 1 also hits the Chest?

Vitals: In the Basic book Vitals are -3 to hit. OPTIONAL RULE in Low-Tech it now states that Vitals are in the Chest and the Abdomen locations. It seems to me that you now must state whether you are attacking/targeting the Chest Vitals or Abdomen Vitals since those 2 locations could have different armor types. Is this correct, you need to state which one?

Groin: In the Basic book, the Groin is Hit Location 11, thus it can be hit randomly by impaling and Piercing attacks. In Low-Tech, the Groin is no longer listed as Hit Location 11, instead it is now listed as part of the Abdomen and the Abdomen is Hit Location 11. When you attack the Abdomen now, you roll a 1d and on a 1 the Vital are hit. Nothing further is mentioned about the Groin. Does this mean that the Groin can no longer be randomly hit?

Chinks in Armor: In GURPS Basic, Targeting Chink is Armor (B400) is a regular rule. In Low-Tech LT101, under Optional Rules for Armor – Chinks in Armor is listed as an Optional Rule. Is the Optional Rule, as outlined in LT101, only the part after the reference to B400 beginning with Remove -2 from…?

Eye-slits or eyeslits: In Basic it is listed as eyeslits, in Low-Tech it is listed as eye-slits. In Basic, eyeslits are listed in Combat Modifiers (B547) at -10 for chinks in armor, yet under Targeting Chinks in Amor (B400) eyeslits are NOT mentioned. In Low-Tech, Chinks in Armor, is listed under Optional Rules for Armor (LT101). In Low-Tech, eye-slits are listed under Optional Rules for Armor, eyes (LT101) yet it is listed as an actual rule under Full Helm (LT111), Greathelm (LT112), and Visor (LT112). So I am confused as GURPS Basic implies this is NOT an optional rule and Low-Tech says it is and is not an optional rule. So are eyeslits/eye-slits an optional rule or not?

[MrFix]

In virtually all cases, assume Torso now means Chest as the +0 hit location.

In terms of protection, most armors that used to cover Torso now cover Chest AND Abdomen.

Most people will tell you that most of GURPS is optional, I'll tell you that chinks in armor are optional only if your GM decides he doesn't want them, otherwise they're in play. Them being marked Optional in LT is unusual and mayhaps the result of some difference from Basic Set.

P.S.: Chest/Abdomen split is in itself an optional rule, as future books rarely (if ever) mention it.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Drone 5

In the Basic book it states when you miss by 1 when attacking the Neck, Groin, Vitals, Face, or Skull hits the Torso instead. Does that now change to Chest instead?

Where are you seeing that? I'd like to make a note because I can't remember it. I'm looking at B398-B399, is it somewhere else?

The closest thing I can remember to this is MA137's notes for the Ear/Jaw/Nose.

In THOSE cases the chest sure makes a lot more sense since it's adjacent. As it would for face/skull if that rule does exist somewhere...

If there is a rule for the vitals/groin I'm not sure though. Those are sublocations of the abdomen so demoting them to generic abdomen hits sounds more appropriate.

I don't know the abdomen to have any rules separate from the chest (except for the random chance to be a groin/pelvis/vitals/digestive tract) so that would probably just be for purposes of armor which only partially covers the torso.

Originally Posted by Drone 5

Abdomen: In Low-Tech the Abdomen has become Hit Location 11 where as in Basic that was the Groin. In Basic it stated that a miss my 1 hits the Torso instead,(now Chest in Low-Tech), does that mean an Abdomen attack that misses by 1 also hits the Chest?

Before we get to that, where's the part about MB1s on the groin hitting the torso?

Originally Posted by Drone 5

Vitals: In the Basic book Vitals are -3 to hit. In Low-Tech it now states that Vitals are in the Chest and the Abdomen locations. It seems to me that you now must state whether you are attacking/targeting the Chest Vitals or Abdomen Vitals since those 2 locations could have different armor types. Is this correct, you need to state which one?

That sounds reasonable, but on the other hand, maybe vitals can be hit from multiple angles? Like stabbing upward through an un-armored abdomen to hit the heart even though it's in the chest?

That should be still possible but really tricky... and maybe having a curved blade like a katana should help with that kind of weird impaling.

Originally Posted by Drone 5

Groin: In the Basic book, the Groin is Hit Location 11, thus it can be hit randomly by impaling and Piercing attacks. In Low-Tech, the Groin is no longer listed as Hit Location 11, instead it is now listed as part of the Abdomen and the Abdomen is Hit Location 11. When you attack the Abdomen now, you roll a 1d and on a 1 the Vital are hit. Nothing further is mentioned about the Groin. Does this mean that the Groin can no longer be randomly hit?

Page numbers help here...

B552 is the original... and I think you're referencing LT100 for the amended one.

I agree with you this seems like an oversight.

This is fixed in a later book in the Low-Tech sries: Instant Armor.

Page 16 still has the problem, but page 19 has optional rules which expand this.

Instead of just Vitals on a 1 (which is still there) it's Digestive Tract on 2-4, Pelvis on 5 and Groin on 6.

So you basically need to use this rule to restore some chance of groins being randomly targeted which LT removed.

Originally Posted by Drone 5

Chinks in Armor: In GURPS Basic, Targeting Chink is Armor (B400) is a regular rule.

In Low-Tech LT101, under Optional Rules for Armor – Chinks in Armor is listed as an Optional Rule.

Is the Optional Rule, as outlined in LT101, only the part after the reference to B400 beginning with Remove -2 from…?

I would assume it's anything new not in basic set. So it being easier to hit chinks in plate w/o sliding rivets, easier to hit chinks in damaged armor, and impossible to hit chinks in flexible armor, are all new optional LT rules I guess.

Originally Posted by Drone 5

Eye-slits or eyeslits: In Basic it is listed as eyeslits, in Low-Tech it is listed as eye-slits.

In Basic, eyeslits are listed in Combat Modifiers (B547) at -10 for chinks in armor, yet under Targeting Chinks in Amor (B400) eyeslits are NOT mentioned.

Um....

B547 "Hit location, through chink in armor: -8 for torso, -10 anywhere else (e.g., eyeslits)"
B400 Roll at -8 to hit a chink in the foe’s torso armor, or at -10 for any other location (face, eyes, vitals, arm, etc.)

You've lost me.

Originally Posted by Drone 5

In Low-Tech, Chinks in Armor, is listed under Optional Rules for Armor (LT101).

I think that's because it uses modified rules. In Basic Set, eye slits would follow the normal chink rules where DR protects at HALF, whereas the optional rule on LT101 has the DR reduced to ZERO.

Originally Posted by Drone 5

In Low-Tech, eye-slits are listed under Optional Rules for Armor, eyes (LT101) yet it is listed as an actual rule under Full Helm (LT111), Greathelm (LT112), and Visor (LT112).

I think that's for convenience since that's where chink rules are addressed within that book. That way people using these helms can consult the optional rules, and the section that introced the optional rules also links back to the basic rules too.

Originally Posted by Drone 5

So I am confused as GURPS Basic implies this is NOT an optional rule and Low-Tech says it is and is not an optional rule. So are eyeslits/eye-slits an optional rule or not?

Striking at the eyes at -10 (just like any other location except the torso) is a basic set rule. Which follows the rule for chinks where DR protects at half.

The optional LT modification for eyes is that it now has no DR at all.

Which probably helps since it brings it in line with how the Damage Resistance advantage works if you don't buy Force Field for it.

Originally Posted by MrFix

chinks in armor are optional only if your GM decides he doesn't want them, otherwise they're in play. Them being marked Optional in LT is unusual and mayhaps the result of some difference from Basic Set.

The biggest difference is that flexible armor doesn't have chinks. If not using the optional rule in LT, I think RAW per basic that flexible armor would still have chinks, unless I missed a rule about that somewhere in Basic.

[dcarson]

Chart by Bruno https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9v...ZGNjdJejg/view

[Drone 5]

Originally Posted by dcarson

Chart by Bruno https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9v...ZGNjdJejg/view

Without Book and Page references, it is hard to verify.
But a nice chart none the less.

[Drone 5]

[QUOTE=Plane;2316655]Where are you seeing that? I'd like to make a note because I can't remember it. I'm looking at B398-B399, is it somewhere else?

GURPS Basic 552 - Human Humanoid Hit Location Table
Locations Eye, Skull, Face, Groin, Neck, and Vital have Note #1
Note#1 states: An attack that misses by 1 hits the torso instead.

[Drone 5]

Originally Posted by MrFix

P.S.: Chest/Abdomen split is in itself an optional rule, as future books rarely (if ever) mention it.

Oh yes you may be right there as the Table on LT100 shows the Chest and Abdomen split and makes it appear that it is an regular rule but then clearly states later on LT102 that isan optional rule. Probably should be a note on that Armor Locations Table so as not to be confusing as one might skip the Optional Rules section (ie they would never know it is actually an optional rule) - Good catch.

[Drone 5]

Originally Posted by Plane

Um....

B547 "Hit location, through chink in armor: -8 for torso, -10 anywhere else (e.g., eyeslits)"
B400 Roll at -8 to hit a chink in the foe’s torso armor, or at -10 for any other location (face, eyes, vitals, arm, etc.)

You've lost me..

OK lets see here.
Regular Rule: (B399) Eyes to hit re -9
Regular Rule: (B400) Chinks in Armor, Eyes -10 (does not say eyeslits it says eyes)
Regular Rule: (B547) e.g., eyeslits -10 (says eyeslits not eyes)
Optional Rule: (LT101) Eye-slits, which under Chinks in Armor, is listed as an Optional Rule.
Regular Rule: (LT111,112( Mentions Helms as having Eye-Slits at -10.
My point here is that Basic states Chinks in Armor, which includes eyeslits ) is a Regular rule while Low-Tech states Chinks in Armor is an Optional Rule YET it also states it is a regular rule under certain Helms.
I think the RAI for Chinks in Armor with eyes vs eyeslits (or eye-slits as in Low-Tech) is that it is eyes are at -9 and eyeslits at -10. That I understand.

[KataH]

Originally Posted by Drone 5

Torso: OPTIONAL RULE in Low-Tech divides the Torso now into Chest and Abdomen. In the Basic book it states when you miss by 1 when attacking the Eye, Skull, Face, Groin, Neck, or Vital hits the Torso instead. Does that now change to Chest instead?

I would agree that you hit the Chest instead.

Originally Posted by Drone 5

Abdomen: OPTIONAL RULE in In Low-Tech the Abdomen has become Hit Location 11 where as in Basic that was the Groin. In Basic it stated that a miss my 1 hits the Torso instead,(now Chest in Low-Tech), does that mean an Abdomen attack that misses by 1 also hits the Chest?

Again I agree that you would hit the Chest instead.

Originally Posted by Drone 5

Vitals: In the Basic book Vitals are -3 to hit. OPTIONAL RULE in Low-Tech it now states that Vitals are in the Chest and the Abdomen locations. It seems to me that you now must state whether you are attacking/targeting the Chest Vitals or Abdomen Vitals since those 2 locations could have different armor types. Is this correct, you need to state which one?

As a GM if my player is attacking the Vitals, I always assume Chest Vitals unless they specifically state Abdomen Vitals.

Originally Posted by Drone 5

Groin: In the Basic book, the Groin is Hit Location 11, thus it can be hit randomly by impaling and Piercing attacks. In Low-Tech, the Groin is no longer listed as Hit Location 11, instead it is now listed as part of the Abdomen and the Abdomen is Hit Location 11. When you attack the Abdomen now, you roll a 1d and on a 1 the Vital are hit. Nothing further is mentioned about the Groin. Does this mean that the Groin can no longer be randomly hit?

To me, again since I am a GM, I had assume that the Groin could no longer be randomly attacked. I noticed you say Low-Tech so I assume you only used book 1 but in Low-Tech Instant Armor under Optional Rules page 19, there is now a sub table for the Chest or Abdomen that now allows the Groin to be hit.

Originally Posted by Drone 5

Chinks in Armor: In GURPS Basic, Targeting Chink is Armor (B400) is a regular rule. In Low-Tech LT101, under Optional Rules for Armor – Chinks in Armor is listed as an Optional Rule. Is the Optional Rule, as outlined in LT101, only the part after the reference to B400 beginning with Remove -2 from…?

See my answer below for eyeslits.

Originally Posted by Drone 5

Eye-slits or eyeslits: In Basic it is listed as eyeslits, in Low-Tech it is listed as eye-slits. In Basic, eyeslits are listed in Combat Modifiers (B547) at -10 for chinks in armor, yet under Targeting Chinks in Amor (B400) eyeslits are NOT mentioned. In Low-Tech, Chinks in Armor, is listed under Optional Rules for Armor (LT101). In Low-Tech, eye-slits are listed under Optional Rules for Armor, eyes (LT101) yet it is listed as an actual rule under Full Helm (LT111), Greathelm (LT112), and Visor (LT112). So I am confused as GURPS Basic implies this is NOT an optional rule and Low-Tech says it is and is not an optional rule. So are eyeslits/eye-slits an optional rule or not?

I think all the rules about eye-slit, eyeslts, and Chinks in armor are badly written. To me, as a GM, my view as the RAI is that Chinks in Armor is a regular rule and not an optional rule and that the mention of eyes in Chinks in Armor B400 actually means eyeslits not eyes.

Hope this helps..

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Drone 5

Torso: OPTIONAL RULE in Low-Tech divides the Torso now into Chest and Abdomen. In the Basic book it states when you miss by 1 when attacking the Eye, Skull, Face, Groin, Neck, or Vital hits the Torso instead. Does that now change to Chest instead?

Yes, except for the Groin, IMHO.