Polyglot, a cinematic take on languages.

ArchonShiva · 03-02-2015, 12:08 PM

Threads keep coming up with new approaches to languages, so this seemed worth posting:

GURPS 4e made languages exponentially more realistic than third edition's half-point skills, but it seems that nobody actually enjoys the new rule: even with the appropriate advantages, languages are simply too expensive to be worth investing in unless they're outright required for your character.

What just occured to me is that in the source material of many cinematic settings - comics, movies, or the average occasionally-globe-trotting TV series, languages seem more like gizmos than anything else - people are revealed to speak languages that are actually relevant.

The next step is just continuity porn: remembering who speaks what, with the authors either bringing up a known or unknown language as appropriate.

It seems to me like languages are used as Wild Talents, but that only allows skills.

So maybe this:

Polyglot [5 points per level]
You speak a number of unspecified languages. Once per play session, when the game calls for language use, you can suggest that you could know this language, and quickly explain why. If the GM agrees, you can understand, speak, read and write that language at Broken level. Much like Serendipity, additional levels either allow multiple uses, or higher mastery (e.g. three levels used at once give you Native command of the language).

In a realistic game, maybe force Retention +0%, which temporarily lowers the value of the advantage by the points required to buy the language, which you can then pay back. Using Polyglot 3 [15] to instantly speak and write native Japanese drops it to Polyglot 1 [9/15] until you pay back 1 point, then Polyglot 2 [10/15] until you pay back the rest. In a cinematic game, ignore this and assume people just speak a different dialect or the continuity people had a brain fart.

You can reduce the cost with limitations appropriatye to the setting, such as Only European Languages -20%, or Only Chinese Dialects -60%.

Language obscurity is handwaved by GM approval, but it could be built-in for a specific setting.

Flyndaran · 03-02-2015, 12:29 PM

Everyone places a different amount of importance on languages. It goes from completely ignored to one of the main foci of a campaign. It's not possible for everyone to agree on a set price for all.
I consider the R.A.W. to fit for my preferred types of games; realistic without costing an arm and a leg point wise like a certain Pyramid article.

Joe · 03-02-2015, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

Polyglot [5 points per level]
You speak a number of unspecified languages. Once per play session, when the game calls for language use, you can suggest that you could know this language, and quickly explain why. If the GM agrees, you can understand, speak, read and write that language at Broken level. Much like Serendipity, additional levels either allow multiple uses, or higher mastery (e.g. three levels used at once give you Native command of the language).

You can reduce the cost with limitations appropriatye to the setting, such as Only European Languages -20%, or Only Chinese Dialects -60%.

I like it a lot! I'm the one who started the most recent thread about alternative ways to handle languages in GURPS, and, though there has been a lot of interesting discussion there, this method might be just what I''m looking for - thanks!

Wavefunction · 03-02-2015, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Everyone places a different amount of importance on languages. It goes from completely ignored to one of the main foci of a campaign. It's not possible for everyone to agree on a set price for all.
I consider the R.A.W. to fit for my preferred types of games; realistic without costing an arm and a leg point wise like a certain Pyramid article.

Absolutely agreed.

I personally wouldn't use your Polyglot advantage, that's mainly because I tend to be pretty iffy when it comes to 'pull it out of your hat' advantages that allow you to do stuff without any justification.

If you want to adjust the prices for languages I'd suggest one of a few things. Allow a discount for buying in bulk, something like -10% per language after the first. Or allow multiple levels of Language Talent.

With the first suggestion you'd get something like this:

French (Accented/Native; Bulk, -30%) [5]
Mandarin Chinese (Native/Broken, -30%) [4]
Spanish (Broken/Broken; Bulk, -30%) [2]
Finnish (Accented/Accented; Bulk, -30%) [4]

With the second you get:

Language Talent 2 [20]
French (Native) [2]
Mandarin Chinese (Native) [2]
Spanish (Native) [2]
Finnish (Native) [2]

Another idea is to allow Wildcard Languages, for example:

Austronesian! (Accented) [12]
Sino-Tibetan! (Native) [18]

Or even a combination:

Language Talent [10]
Austronesian! (Accented) [6]
Sino-Tibetan! (Native) [12]

Just a few thoughts.

Astromancer · 03-02-2015, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wavefunction

With the second you get:

Language Talent 2 [20]
French (Native) [2]
Mandarin Chinese (Native) [2]
Spanish (Native) [2]
Finnish (Native) [2]

Another idea is to allow Wildcard Languages, for example:

Austronesian! (Accented) [12]
Sino-Tibetan! (Native) [18]

Or even a combination:

Language Talent [10]
Austronesian! (Accented) [6]
Sino-Tibetan! (Native) [12]

Just a few thoughts.

I like the combo method. But you'll need to be careful with Indo-European lanuages. Romance! or Celtic! would be good, Indo-European! would be too powerful.

ArchonShiva · 03-02-2015, 01:15 PM

Oh, it's not a cost issue - anyone can just halve language costs in their campaign.

The point of this is to allow a character for whom "speaks a lot of languages" is an actual feature experienced at the table, rather than a long list on his sheet praying a few of those actually show up in play.

Note that "no justification" is covered by GM approval - it's meant to mimic characters in secret agent shows who "spent a year stationed in Portugal" whenever the story calls for it. If you're not looking for this, it won't be for you.

I fail to see how your Bulk idea fits a cinematic take, although I do like your bang! skills for the appropriate campaign, which I'd widen to stuff like European!, EastAsian!, Ex-USSRian!, Commonwealthian!, defining each as generously as is reasonable.

whswhs · 03-02-2015, 01:28 PM

That doesn't seem very different in purpose from the Omnilingual unusual background in GURPS Supers. Were you aware of that treatment?

Wavefunction · 03-02-2015, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

Oh, it's not a cost issue - anyone can just halve language costs in their campaign.

Hmmm... Re-reading your original post I realise that, for some reason the first time through I thought it was a cost issue, sorry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

The point of this is to allow a character for whom "speaks a lot of languages" is an actual feature experienced at the table, rather than a long list on his sheet praying a few of those actually show up in play.

This seems more appropriate for a character who "speaks any language provided he hasn't already spoken one earlier that day" which just seems a bit odd to me. It may be appropriate for certain cinematic campaigns, but I think it would have problems even then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

I fail to see how your Bulk idea fits a cinematic take, although I do like your bang! skills for the appropriate campaign, which I'd widen to stuff like European!, EastAsian!, Ex-USSRian!, Commonwealthian!, defining each as generously as is reasonable.

When I was toying with the Bulk idea I was still under the mistaken impression that the issue was cost. Glad you like the Wildcard Languages idea, it just popped into my head all of a sudden. One of the biggest advantages of that system is that you can define them to cover as broad a selection as is appropriate for the utility of languages in a given game.

Joe · 03-02-2015, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

The point of this is to allow a character for whom "speaks a lot of languages" is an actual feature experienced at the table, rather than a long list on his sheet praying a few of those actually show up in play.

I'm on board with this.

The nice thing about this approach: it makes the We've-encountered-a-linguistic challenge!-How-can-we-meet-it? scene interesting, rather than simply a matter of everyone consulting their sheets to see if they have the right word written down.

The interest here comes from the requirement for an ad-libbed, story-based explanation as to how the character learned the language. It's a fun, narrativist kind of interest - definitely not a realistic, simulationist kind of interest - and here that strikes me as a feature rather than a bug.

~~evileeyore~~ · 03-02-2015, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArchonShiva

Oh, it's not a cost issue - anyone can just halve language costs in their campaign.

There is a problem with this idea:

It makes Italian (Broken, Spoken Only) 0.5 points.

03-02-2015, 12:08 PM	#1
ArchonShiva Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Montréal, Québec	Polyglot, a cinematic take on languages. Threads keep coming up with new approaches to languages, so this seemed worth posting: GURPS 4e made languages exponentially more realistic than third edition's half-point skills, but it seems that nobody actually enjoys the new rule: even with the appropriate advantages, languages are simply too expensive to be worth investing in unless they're outright required for your character. What just occured to me is that in the source material of many cinematic settings - comics, movies, or the average occasionally-globe-trotting TV series, languages seem more like gizmos than anything else - people are revealed to speak languages that are actually relevant. The next step is just continuity porn: remembering who speaks what, with the authors either bringing up a known or unknown language as appropriate. It seems to me like languages are used as Wild Talents, but that only allows skills. So maybe this: Polyglot [5 points per level] You speak a number of unspecified languages. Once per play session, when the game calls for language use, you can suggest that you could know this language, and quickly explain why. If the GM agrees, you can understand, speak, read and write that language at Broken level. Much like Serendipity, additional levels either allow multiple uses, or higher mastery (e.g. three levels used at once give you Native command of the language). In a realistic game, maybe force Retention +0%, which temporarily lowers the value of the advantage by the points required to buy the language, which you can then pay back. Using Polyglot 3 [15] to instantly speak and write native Japanese drops it to Polyglot 1 [9/15] until you pay back 1 point, then Polyglot 2 [10/15] until you pay back the rest. In a cinematic game, ignore this and assume people just speak a different dialect or the continuity people had a brain fart. You can reduce the cost with limitations appropriatye to the setting, such as Only European Languages -20%, or Only Chinese Dialects -60%. Language obscurity is handwaved by GM approval, but it could be built-in for a specific setting.

03-02-2015, 12:29 PM	#2
Flyndaran Untagged Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon	Re: Polyglot, a cinematic take on languages. Everyone places a different amount of importance on languages. It goes from completely ignored to one of the main foci of a campaign. It's not possible for everyone to agree on a set price for all. I consider the R.A.W. to fit for my preferred types of games; realistic without costing an arm and a leg point wise like a certain Pyramid article. __________________ Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.

03-02-2015, 01:15 PM	#6
ArchonShiva Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Montréal, Québec	Re: Polyglot, a cinematic take on languages. Oh, it's not a cost issue - anyone can just halve language costs in their campaign. The point of this is to allow a character for whom "speaks a lot of languages" is an actual feature experienced at the table, rather than a long list on his sheet praying a few of those actually show up in play. Note that "no justification" is covered by GM approval - it's meant to mimic characters in secret agent shows who "spent a year stationed in Portugal" whenever the story calls for it. If you're not looking for this, it won't be for you. I fail to see how your Bulk idea fits a cinematic take, although I do like your bang! skills for the appropriate campaign, which I'd widen to stuff like European!, EastAsian!, Ex-USSRian!, Commonwealthian!, defining each as generously as is reasonable.

03-02-2015, 01:28 PM	#7
whswhs Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Lawrence, KS	Re: Polyglot, a cinematic take on languages. That doesn't seem very different in purpose from the Omnilingual unusual background in GURPS Supers. Were you aware of that treatment? __________________ Bill Stoddard I don't think we're in Oz any more.