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Old 02-22-2018, 11:22 PM   #1
Ailluminus
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Default Magic: Rive (M&B)

Hello, all,

If you could humor me for a second, am I reading Rive on pg 117 of Magic correctly? It punches a 2-foot-diameter hole in an object? I have to think that's supposed to be inches, as it's a huge piercing attack, and not numerous levels of a Corrosion attack.

Also, it does 1d/1 FP? There's no upper limit on that, right?

I'm imagining this spell punches countless 2-inch holes in solid objects, doing massive damage commiserate with the energy use. Am I entirely misinterpreting this spell?

Thanks.
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Old 02-22-2018, 11:59 PM   #2
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Default Re: Magic: Rive (M&B)

I dont recall seeing any errata on it. Far as I know its the spell for punching through walls. Its only weaknesses is its a Regular spell so you have to get in close.
Of course than there is Spell Arrow...
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Old 02-23-2018, 04:28 AM   #3
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Magic: Rive (M&B)

Pretty much it, yes. It's an anti-castle spell, also those doors which dungeons are full of.

1d per FP is more or less than standard rate of damage for Missile spells, tweaked up or down a point or so according to damage types and side effects. So the amount of damage isn't really out of line with other smash-em-up spells. Compare to the DR/HP of likely targets like walls on page B558.
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Old 02-23-2018, 07:48 AM   #4
Ailluminus
 
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Default Re: Magic: Rive (M&B)

There's no errata I found, and I looked. It just seems wildly powerful, like the ability to insta-kill robots, automatons and other foes. 1 FP is totally in line with spell damage, it's just there are normally limitations; Missile spells take time to get up to snuff and are capped. Jet spells are totally capped.

Rive just seems to destroy.

For context, I'm going to be playing in a Giant Fighting Robot fantasy game, and those Robots are going to be entirely artificial and run off a large pool of FP. Rive would let me just REK with a single casting that blew the FP pool.

I might have to ask my GM to nerf it.

Thanks, all. If there's more insight here I'd love to hear it.
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Old 02-23-2018, 11:56 AM   #5
Anaraxes
 
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Default Re: Magic: Rive (M&B)

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Originally Posted by Ailluminus View Post
Missile spells take time to get up to snuff and are capped.
Only 3 seconds max, and that can be done before combat (which is a lot more likely when you're going for the all-eggs-in-one-basket win-or-lose die roll you get when you blow all your energy on one spell). Either 1s or 3s is irrelevant out of combat time, which is when you're most likely to be destroying walls and doors and such.

The cap on Missile spells is pretty high -- 9d even for your basic starting mage (3 x Magery 3). That's pretty much the same as the effective FP cap of 10 FP for an average human. Sure, maybe you've got 12 FP, or are willing to take some damage -- not an earthshaking difference. If you're playing with Threshold Magic or heavily discounted ERs, maybe you'd want to throw in a cap so it's similar to a Missile spell. Missile spells can easily have a 1.5x or 2x injury modifier, but then, Rive can't affect living creatures at all, so that's something of a moot point. (Against all those targets, Rive is capped at 0...)

I've never seen anyone even take the spell, much less try to abuse it. But have fun storming the castle!
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Old 02-23-2018, 01:01 PM   #6
Kromm
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Default Re: Magic: Rive (M&B)

Yeah, I've read many armchair concerns about Rive in my 23 years as Line Editor . . . but I've never run into an actual-play experience that proved it to be broken. Ultimately, the sheer amount of FP needed to put a 2'-wide hole in even a modest wall with Rive usually leads to the conclusion that a guy with suitable tools could do the job for fewer FP, and create a bigger breach in the process.

Dungeon Fantasy, for example, calls the very thinnest dungeon wall DR 78, HP 75. That's 44d of Rive; it could be cast a bit at time, of course. But the best-case scenario where 44 castings do the trick, someone strong with a big hammer (say, ST 12 and the equivalent of a mace, for 1d+5) could ablate the DR and get rid of the HP in less time, perhaps 22-23 whacks, for the equivalent of 1 FP for "fighting a battle."
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Old 02-23-2018, 08:03 AM   #7
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Magic: Rive (M&B)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ailluminus View Post
Hello, all,

If you could humor me for a second, am I reading Rive on pg 117 of Magic correctly? It punches a 2-foot-diameter hole in an object? I have to think that's supposed to be inches, as it's a huge piercing attack, and not numerous levels of a Corrosion attack.

Also, it does 1d/1 FP? There's no upper limit on that, right?

I'm imagining this spell punches countless 2-inch holes in solid objects, doing massive damage commiserate with the energy use. Am I entirely misinterpreting this spell?

Thanks.
It's a 2 foot wide hole but not necessarily a very deep one. Depth depends on the HP of the item attacked. However, when you get through enough of those HP you've got a hole an average human can crawl through.
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Old 02-23-2018, 08:57 AM   #8
Kromm
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Default Re: Magic: Rive (M&B)

Also note that in GURPS, no active opponent that can react to the external world qualifies as an "inanimate object," regardless of its underlying nature. Thus, Rive cannot affect animated statues, golems, robots, and other constructs – or for that matter, sessile life forms without limbs, which cannot move and which are thus technically not "animate." It's designed to blast unthinking artifacts and scenery: walls, ceilings, and floors; doors, windows, drawbridges, etc.; furniture, paintings, unanimated statuary, and so on; rocks and hills; and random junk that can be carried in hand, like axes and guitars.
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:14 AM   #9
Ailluminus
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Default Re: Magic: Rive (M&B)

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Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
Also note that in GURPS, no active opponent that can react to the external world qualifies as an "inanimate object," regardless of its underlying nature. Thus, Rive cannot affect animated statues, golems, robots, and other constructs – or for that matter, sessile life forms without limbs, which cannot move and which are thus technically not "animate." It's designed to blast unthinking artifacts and scenery: walls, ceilings, and floors; doors, windows, drawbridges, etc.; furniture, paintings, unanimated statuary, and so on; rocks and hills; and random junk that can be carried in hand, like axes and guitars.
That changes things significantly. Thank you.
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