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Old 12-23-2015, 03:35 PM   #1
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Default Technological development without fire.

In a fantasy world there is a culture that is fairly isolationist, long lived and has some magic. However they do not use fire. How does their technology develop? How advanced can it get? What are things made from?

Resins and stoneware are a bit of a given. Leather work work be retarded somewhat.
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Old 12-23-2015, 03:36 PM   #2
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Default Re: Technological development without fire.

It all depends on what their magic will do. really.
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Old 12-23-2015, 03:53 PM   #3
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Default Re: Technological development without fire.

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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
It all depends on what their magic will do. really.
That is a problem with most fantasy settings isn't it, how do you incorporate magic realistically (as you can anyway) without distorting the world beyond what is relatable to the GM and players.

For the sake of simplicity then leave the magic in the background or at most treat it as "imported" or "exotic" epuipment.

Assume vanilla gurps magic with low advancement in every spell college except plant.

Given that there is always a chance a demon turns up when casting spells personally I see magic not being used routinely in a society for the merely mundane.
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Last edited by (E); 12-23-2015 at 04:01 PM.
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Old 12-23-2015, 04:04 PM   #4
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Default Re: Technological development without fire.

Without fire (or some other method of generating intense heat) we are looking at barely being able to achieve tl 1. Most levels of advancement beyond there (no ability to newly copper means no copper/bronze age), even scientific advancement would be terribly retarded without the ability to reliably heat fluids or even boil water most chemistry is impossible.
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Old 12-23-2015, 04:41 PM   #5
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Default Re: Technological development without fire.

How come they can't use fire?

EDIT

This is pretty huge, I mean humans are evolved to eat cooked food for example, so without fire we wouldn't even be human. Magic doesn't solve this because there's no reason to conjure cooked food if you never developed that technology.

Last edited by mr beer; 12-23-2015 at 04:47 PM.
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Old 12-23-2015, 04:57 PM   #6
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Default Re: Technological development without fire.

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Originally Posted by mr beer View Post
This is pretty huge, I mean humans are evolved to eat cooked food for example, so without fire we wouldn't even be human. Magic doesn't solve this because there's no reason to conjure cooked food if you never developed that technology.
Eh? When did this happen?

We eat cooked food because it's safer, not because we can't eat raw meat or veggies. I eat raw food all the time for example.
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Old 12-23-2015, 05:21 PM   #7
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Default Re: Technological development without fire.

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Eh? When did this happen?

We eat cooked food because it's safer, not because we can't eat raw meat or veggies. I eat raw food all the time for example.
Agreed. Fire does not make us human.

Fire does however make us able to take food of questionable quality and eat it anyway, as well as having food sitting around for longer periods. It also concentrates calories and breaks down material into an easier to digest form, which means less time eating/looking for food.

This extends our lifespans significantly, which allows us to store and pass on knowledge more effectively until the development of the written word. And allows the passage of technique or specific methodology until the invention of youtube howto videos.

I would think that the serious barrier to accessing the technologies that are required for TL >0 would be the more major barrier then the above, but that is something to take into consideration.
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Old 12-23-2015, 05:24 PM   #8
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Default Re: Technological development without fire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by (E) View Post
In a fantasy world there is a culture that is fairly isolationist, long lived and has some magic. However they do not use fire. How does their technology develop? How advanced can it get? What are things made from?

Resins and stoneware are a bit of a given. Leather work work be retarded somewhat.
OK so what can you do without fire.

You can do math.
You can do selective breeding and pollination. (and with a bit of magic, push the practical limits of that)
You can do herbalism
You can do flintknapping
You can do woodcarving (with stone tools)
You can fish
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Old 12-23-2015, 06:10 PM   #9
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Default Re: Technological development without fire.

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
OK so what can you do without fire.

You can do math.
You can do selective breeding and pollination. (and with a bit of magic, push the practical limits of that)
You can do herbalism
You can do flintknapping
You can do woodcarving (with stone tools)
You can fish
Only sort of:

You can only do as much math as memory, finger, abacus, and tablet etching will allow- as the lack of fire means no refined chalk or flat blackboards, and no paper, ink, or books; not even cuneiform because you can't boil to treat the leather.

Likewise for selective breeding/pollination- with minimal ways to record what

Herbalism- only up to the point where an herbal is required, then its too complex to record or memorize.

Flinknapping- A OK.

Woodcarving with stone tools - no tracing, pure freehand- no charcoal to mark what you want.

You can fish- but you can't prepare, which means lots of parasites and short shelf lives.



Fire is important.
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Old 12-23-2015, 07:16 PM   #10
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Default Re: Technological development without fire.

Quote:
Eh? When did this happen?
Between 0.4 and 1.7 million years ago, depending on whose evidence you prefer. Though changes in dentation that imply an actual *dependence* on cooking for a substantial part of hominid diet aren't unambiguously present until later, say 0.2 MYA. In any case, fire is something Homo erectus used regularly, we really wouldn't be the same species without it.

Quote:
Herbalism- only up to the point where an herbal is required, then its too complex to record or memorize.
Actually, I don't think you can get that far. Artificial drying and hot water extraction are both pretty important steps for lots of herbal preparations.
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