No Mana Vs. No Magic

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by zorg

Is there really a difference between No Mana and No Magic? I was assuming that "No Magic" was just a non-technical term for "No Mana". Of course, I could be wrong.

No mana is a reason for there to be no magic. But you could have a world that had nothing native with magic advantages...but a mana level that would allow an outside visitor with magic aptitude to go ahead and cast away.

[Ashtagon]

Originally Posted by zorg

Is there really a difference between No Mana and No Magic? I was assuming that "No Magic" was just a non-technical term for "No Mana". Of course, I could be wrong.

Consider the difference between a world where nukes don't exist because they haven't been invented yet, and a world where nukes don't exist because the laws of physics are simply not set up to allow nukes as we know them.

[zorg]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

No mana is a reason for there to be no magic.

That's what I thought. In that case, Mana Enhancer will always work, even in a nominally magic-free world, right? Because under that rading, a world where magic "can't exist" simply lacks mana.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by zorg

That's what I thought. In that case, Mana Enhancer will always work, even in a nominally magic-free world, right? Because under that rading, a world where magic "can't exist" simply lacks mana.

By extension you could have a Weird Science Enhancer that would let Gutenberg tech work elsewhere and so forth.

[scc]

Originally Posted by zorg

Is there really a difference between No Mana and No Magic? I was assuming that "No Magic" was just a non-technical term for "No Mana". Of course, I could be wrong.

Currently there isn't, at least on the scale of whole worlds, I'm saying that there should be a difference between worlds were magic just doesn't work and those where it doesn't work because there's no mana, there are ways around a mana level that low and there could very well be magical stuff that doesn't need a higher mana level to work, but no a world where there is no magic that's different

[Nereidalbel]

Originally Posted by scc

Currently there isn't, at least on the scale of whole worlds, I'm saying that there should be a difference between worlds were magic just doesn't work and those where it doesn't work because there's no mana, there are ways around a mana level that low and there could very well be magical stuff that doesn't need a higher mana level to work, but no a world where there is no magic that's different

In that case, just declare a universe-sized field of Static (Magic).

[Jerander]

One thing to consider is to set two mana levels: one is the amount of ambient magical energy and one is the maleability of reality. AME could control things like Recover Energy and Regeneration (ER) speeds, damage to those with Dependency (Mana), etc. MoR would control how difficult magic is to work in the area.

An area with high AME and high MoR would work like a normal (or higher) magic setting.

An area with high AME and low MoR would have a lot of magical energy for use, but could only be used with very high skills and/or severe penalties to cast, making it a potentially dangerous place (the high ambient energy leading to exciting events with critical fails...).

An area with low AME and high MoR would rely on paut, Powerstones, etc. Such magical energy sources could become highly desired, sought for, and fought over.

An area with low AME and Low MoR would be your typical low (or lower) magic setting.

Or something like that.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Ashtagon

Consider the difference between a world where nukes don't exist because they haven't been invented yet, and a world where nukes don't exist because the laws of physics are simply not set up to allow nukes as we know them.

I think it's more the difference between a world where nukes don't work, and a world where nukes don't work but there's one guy who runs around with the magic power to make uranium explode.

Personally, I see no difference. You've got a world with rules, and you've got a character advantage that allows him to exert world-altering power in a localized area.

THS isn't a "setting with no magic," it's a no-mana setting where the Mana Enhancer advantage is disallowed. If you allowed the Mana Enhancer advantage in THS, then characters who take it would, of course, be allowed to use magic in their little low-mana bubbles. The same would apply to characters with Mana Enhancer who parachronically jumped in, or whatever.

[Lamech]

So, my interpretation of the Infinite Worlds setting is thus:
1) When you are operating under "normal" physics. The kind you find on Homeline, its echos, most places really magic works.
2) Not all places have mana. Homeline is devoid of mana. But if you brought a mana enhancer in, it would work fine. Mages could cast in the little bubble of magic.
3) Some worlds will have different physics than normal. For example a world where electricity doesn't function. No reason you couldn't have a world where magic doesn't work. However these are the exception, not the rule.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by Lamech

3) Some worlds will have different physics than normal. For example a world where electricity doesn't function. No reason you couldn't have a world where magic doesn't work. However these are the exception, not the rule.

There was a pyramid article some time ago (back in the second iteration, I believe) that discussed a concept called "Flux" which, I believe, was how cinematic a universe was. You could have no flux, low flux, normal flux, high flux and very high flux. And, presumably, you could have flux generators, who would carry the cinematic sensibilities of their universe into other places. Such a trait doesn't exist... but there are collections of perks that do provide a similar trick: Rules exceptions.

I don't think Mana is really unique in this regard, thus. I think Mana is an example of something you can tweak up and down, a switch that a character with the right advantage can toggle on his own in a limited way. Mana Enhancer is one such advantage... but I see no reason why such a trait should be limited to magic.

You say that there are some settings where electricity simply doesn't work. But what if someone had the "Hard Sci-finess generator" that allowed him to bring a more earth-realistic paradigm with him? Such a trait would make a ton of sense if you were running a game like Mage: the Ascension or TORG. So why not apply it to Infinite Earths?

So, I don't see how "Electricity doesn't work here" has to be different from "Magic doesn't work here because of no mana." Get "Electricity Enhancer" and you can bring electricity with you to whatever reality you're in.