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Old 06-29-2016, 04:17 AM   #1
scc
 
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Default [Magic] Enchanting and Failures

OK, the Enchanting rules in Magic take it as a matter of faith that failing an Enchanting role is bad, like combat bad, meaning you don't get that nice +4 bonus for non-dangerous circumstances, but I have to wonder if that applies per RAW.

Enchanting fails on a 16, and crit fails on 17-18, which is remarkably close to the odds for normal crafting, which are just the normal 17 fail, 18 crit fail, and the consequences for failing at Enchanting are pretty tame, actually BETTER then the normal crafting rules (LTC3:24) if using Q&D which is a functional magic item, either quirked or not what you wanted, and S&S you lose the item being Enchanted along with any extra materials, in either case crit fail means the item and any materials are gone (Personally I think the ordinary failure conditions are backwards, but that's RAW). Note that under no circumstances do you roll on the Magic Failure table.
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Old 06-29-2016, 05:21 AM   #2
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Default Re: [Magic] Enchanting and Failures

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Originally Posted by scc View Post
OK, the Enchanting rules in Magic take it as a matter of faith that failing an Enchanting role is bad, like combat bad, meaning you don't get that nice +4 bonus for non-dangerous circumstances, but I have to wonder if that applies per RAW.
Assuming this is what I think it is about, and you are just wanting to claim a +4 bonus for enchanting something in a non-combat situation, then no RAW that bonus does not exist. This is true of any rule written for situations that basically never happen under life threatening conditions - you don't get a +4 for making all Research or inventing or non-combat influence rolls - though there is some disagreement about job rolls. That +4 is a patch for pure combat skills imposed to make tournament or recreational shooting results better match reality that's somehow gotten generalized, it's not intended for rules that weren't written with a risk of death in mind.

If you really insisted, you could impose a -4 to the "normal" difficulty of all those tasks and claim the offsetting +4 almost all the time, but generally it makes more sense to write rules for the normal conditions you use the skill under - and [impose a penalty | give a bonus] for the rare case you would be using them [under stress | in perfectly safe conditions], and that's how most of the rules were originally written.
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Old 06-29-2016, 09:59 AM   #3
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Default Re: [Magic] Enchanting and Failures

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Originally Posted by malloyd View Post
Assuming this is what I think it is about, and you are just wanting to claim a +4 bonus for enchanting something in a non-combat situation, then no RAW that bonus does not exist. This is true of any rule written for situations that basically never happen under life threatening conditions - you don't get a +4 for making all Research or inventing or non-combat influence rolls - though there is some disagreement about job rolls. That +4 is a patch for pure combat skills imposed to make tournament or recreational shooting results better match reality that's somehow gotten generalized, it's not intended for rules that weren't written with a risk of death in mind.

If you really insisted, you could impose a -4 to the "normal" difficulty of all those tasks and claim the offsetting +4 almost all the time, but generally it makes more sense to write rules for the normal conditions you use the skill under - and [impose a penalty | give a bonus] for the rare case you would be using them [under stress | in perfectly safe conditions], and that's how most of the rules were originally written.
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Originally Posted by B171
In nonadventuring situations when you have lots of time to prepare and face minimal risk, the GM may give you +4 or more to skill.
Doesn't say anything about "pure combat" skills. I would imagine that enchanting is complex and subtle, i.e. does not qualify for the mundane +4. Then again, maybe an experienced, professional item enchanter does it often enough to qualify.
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Old 06-29-2016, 05:35 PM   #4
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Default Re: [Magic] Enchanting and Failures

Aha! While I also say that allowing the +4 should never be applied to normal enchanting, I think it might fit perfectly for industrial enchanting.
It never felt right that common low paid grunt enchanters in settings like Technomancer had to have insane intelligence, magical abilities, and skill. That +4 allows nearly anyone with proper magery to work the line.
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Old 06-29-2016, 08:22 PM   #5
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Default Re: [Magic] Enchanting and Failures

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Aha! While I also say that allowing the +4 should never be applied to normal enchanting, I think it might fit perfectly for industrial enchanting.
It never felt right that common low paid grunt enchanters in settings like Technomancer had to have insane intelligence, magical abilities, and skill. That +4 allows nearly anyone with proper magery to work the line.
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Old 06-29-2016, 09:20 PM   #6
David Johnston2
 
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Default Re: [Magic] Enchanting and Failures

Quote:
Originally Posted by scc View Post
OK, the Enchanting rules in Magic take it as a matter of faith that failing an Enchanting role is bad, like combat bad, meaning you don't get that nice +4 bonus for non-dangerous circumstances, but I have to wonder if that applies per RAW.

Enchanting fails on a 16, and crit fails on 17-18, which is remarkably close to the odds for normal crafting, which are just the normal 17 fail, 18 crit fail, and the consequences for failing at Enchanting are pretty tame, actually BETTER then the normal crafting rules (LTC3:24) if using Q&D which is a functional magic item, either quirked or not what you wanted, and S&S you lose the item being Enchanted along with any extra materials, in either case crit fail means the item and any materials are gone (Personally I think the ordinary failure conditions are backwards, but that's RAW). Note that under no circumstances do you roll on the Magic Failure table.
I could if I wanted to. That the enchanted item is always ruined does not mean that a critical failure can't have other effects.
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Old 06-30-2016, 06:27 PM   #7
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Default Re: [Magic] Enchanting and Failures

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
Aha! While I also say that allowing the +4 should never be applied to normal enchanting, I think it might fit perfectly for industrial enchanting.
It never felt right that common low paid grunt enchanters in settings like Technomancer had to have insane intelligence, magical abilities, and skill. That +4 allows nearly anyone with proper magery to work the line.
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Old 06-30-2016, 06:30 PM   #8
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Default Re: [Magic] Enchanting and Failures

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"Today on How It's Made: stainless steel tables, compound bows, and powerstones."
We asked to show Dwarven Whetstones, but the craftsmen behind those wonders prefer to keep it a Trade Secret[1].
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Old 06-30-2016, 06:40 PM   #9
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Default Re: [Magic] Enchanting and Failures

Technically, the +4 bonus doesn't matter, because it's a bonus to the roll, not a bonus to your skill. Since you're required to have a skill of 15, not a roll of 15, and 16 auto-fails, 17 crit-fails, on all enchantment rolls, a +4 bonus doesn't actually do anything.
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Old 06-30-2016, 07:19 PM   #10
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: [Magic] Enchanting and Failures

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Technically, the +4 bonus doesn't matter, because it's a bonus to the roll, not a bonus to your skill. Since you're required to have a skill of 15, not a roll of 15, and 16 auto-fails, 17 crit-fails, on all enchantment rolls, a +4 bonus doesn't actually do anything.
It might let you use bigger Q&D circles but Q&D is the Enchanting form least suited for claiming the bonus. Q&D ends all in one second with this big (potentially huge) rush of magical energy.
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