Lifting water with TK

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

Humans are the baseline. If you buy ST 11, you get HP 11. HP are cognate with the size of the body. This is RAW.

But SM doesn't depend on HP.

[Harald387]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

Humans are the baseline. If you buy ST 11, you get HP 11. HP are cognate with the size of the body. This is RAW.

Not entirely; HP are related to the MASS of the body. Someone with 3000 HP could be SM 0 and simply very dense.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

But SM doesn't depend on HP.

?????

News to me.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Harald387

Not entirely; HP are related to the MASS of the body. Someone with 3000 HP could be SM 0 and simply very dense.

But in GURPS, humans are the baseline, not black holes.

[SuedodeuS]

For purposes of holding things in cupped hands and grappling, I'd say the "hands" should be considered SM 0. Area Effect increases this size for purposes of holding things, whereas some sort of "improved grappling" modifier (as proposed by Kelly Pederson) would increase it for purposes of grappling.

For the Turtle's visualization, maybe an Area Effect modifier that is itself modified by Takes Extra Time? Not sure about the water leaking out - this could either be a special effect (wherein the water that poured out was actually in excess of what he could lift) or some limitation that requires a skill roll to successfully visualize. Failing slightly (or succeeding only by a bit) causes the TK to be less efficient.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

?????

News to me.

Care to point out where the book says "Someone with X ST/HP must have Y HP"?
And Biotech p. 63-64 is not an example -those are simply guidelines for realistic SM to ST/HP ratios. They have no bearing on the general rules.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

Care to point out where the book says "Someone with X ST/HP must have Y HP"?
And Biotech p. 63-64 is not an example -those are simply guidelines for realistic SM to ST/HP ratios. They have no bearing on the general rules.

If you buy ST 12, what HP do you get?

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

If you buy ST 12, what HP do you get?

Sorry, that should have read "Someone with X ST/HP must have Y SM".
There is a relationship between ST and HP, obviously. But there is no direct relationship between those stats and Size Modifier.

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

Sorry, that should have read "Someone with X ST/HP must have Y SM".
There is a relationship between ST and HP, obviously. But there is no direct relationship between those stats and Size Modifier.

Right enough, but the baseline human has to undertake an XP point adjustment to make them vary. To me this is sufficient, in the absense of a clear reason otherwise, to ask whether the size of the notional 'hands' should vary with the ST.

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Figleaf23

Right enough, but the baseline human has to undertake an XP point adjustment to make them vary. To me this is sufficient, in the absense of a clear reason otherwise, to ask whether the size of the notional 'hands' should vary with the ST.

Baseline humans may establish the 0 point level for GURPS, but not all traits are judged around "what would a baseline human be like?" You can quite easily have a SM 0 creature with ST 100 in GURPS, so I see no particular reason to make a totally supernatural trait like Telekinesis follow some odd "scales to human ST:SM ratio" rule.
In any case, the really telling argument against this is that extra SM is not a 0-point trait for TK hands. SM is a 0-point modifier because its drawbacks (difficulty fitting into smaller area, difficulty hiding, easier to hit, etc.) are balanced by its benefits (Better grapples, more reach, etc.). But pretty much all the disadvantages of high Size are negated for the "hands" Telekinesis creates, since they're unhittable, can penetrate solid matter, and are completely invisible. So higher SM should cost more for them, and the best way to do that is an enhancement on TK.