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Old 09-18-2018, 03:38 PM   #51
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
Default Re: Facing

This question may seem like it comes from an ultra-newb (because I am) but...

Is there any reason, rule, or penalty to prevent one from keeping the backs of one's figures against the edge of the map and keeping one's figures side-by-side?
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Old 09-18-2018, 05:30 PM   #52
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Facing

I think that is fine, though it obviously depends on the group's interpretation of what the edge of the map means. If it is interpreted as a wall or something then go for it; if it is just an arbitrary line in space, then it has no meaning and you should extend the map past it whenever figures move near it. But, be aware that you expose yourself to several risks when you put your back to a wall. Foes can enter your hex at will, shield rushes, push-backs and over-runs are riskier for you, and I think you even suffer a negative consequence when your foe gets to move you at the end of the turn because you were hit and he/she/it was not. So, it is a good way to avoid having people run behind you, but you are also vulnerable to other strategies.
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Old 09-18-2018, 06:11 PM   #53
platimus
 
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Default Re: Facing

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
I think that is fine, though it obviously depends on the group's interpretation of what the edge of the map means. If it is interpreted as a wall or something then go for it; if it is just an arbitrary line in space, then it has no meaning and you should extend the map past it whenever figures move near it. But, be aware that you expose yourself to several risks when you put your back to a wall. Foes can enter your hex at will, shield rushes, push-backs and over-runs are riskier for you, and I think you even suffer a negative consequence when your foe gets to move you at the end of the turn because you were hit and he/she/it was not. So, it is a good way to avoid having people run behind you, but you are also vulnerable to other strategies.
Great response! Thanks! I thought of the arbitrary line thing but was wondering if most folks handled it like that. I know what can enter my hex at will. Pretty much anything but the true danger of it comes from larger foes. Same for over-runs. So not a good strategy when fighting larger creatures. I'm guessing the most common things that could cause a "push-back" would also be larger foes/creatures. I know there is at least one spell that can cause it. What else can cause a "push-back"?

So far, this strategy looks good when fighting foes of similar size that don't have shields or missile weapons. It might even be good if only 1/3 or less of your foes have shields and/or missile weapons.

If 2/3 or more of your foes have missile weapons, it would seem prudent to make those guys high-priority targets. Perhaps gang-up on each one until the ratio of ranged fighters goes down to 1/3, then focus on the 'tanks'. Once the 'tanks' are gone, mop-up any remaining missile users. Of course, taking out any Wizards should be first-priority.

Does any of that sound patently bad?
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Old 09-18-2018, 06:20 PM   #54
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Facing

Putting your back to a wall may or may not be a good idea. It depends on the whole situation. The upside is of course that it prevents people going into your rear hexes.

If you injure your foe but they fail to injure you, at the end of the turn you can force them to retreat one hex away from you. If they have nowhere to retreat, they have to roll vs. DX or fall down. So putting your back to a wall can work against you that way.

If your back is blocked, you also can't as easily resist being jumped into hand to hand combat.

Bigger creatures can push you back and make you fall down, but they actually aren't allowed to push you if you have nowhere to go.
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Old 09-18-2018, 06:53 PM   #55
platimus
 
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Default Re: Facing

Quote:
If you injure your foe but they fail to injure you, at the end of the turn you can force them to retreat one hex away from you. If they have nowhere to retreat, they have to roll vs. DX or fall down. So putting your back to a wall can work against you that way.
Ah. Thanks. I wasn't aware of that.
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Old 09-19-2018, 12:28 AM   #56
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Facing

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Originally Posted by platimus View Post
Ah. Thanks. I wasn't aware of that.
Yes, this rule governing displacement at the end of the turn is a super important element of game play that I think most people forget. If there is any interesting terrain nearby it can be a determining rule. This was my first thought when I saw the Dyson melee map, with its half-dozen features spread across the map. A lot of fights played in that space are going to be settled by someone getting pushed into a hole.
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Old 09-19-2018, 06:01 AM   #57
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Default Re: Facing

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
Yes, this rule governing displacement at the end of the turn is a super important element of game play that I think most people forget. If there is any interesting terrain nearby it can be a determining rule. This was my first thought when I saw the Dyson melee map, with its half-dozen features spread across the map. A lot of fights played in that space are going to be settled by someone getting pushed into a hole.
This has me wondering what would happen if you had 4 guys fighting back to back (with their backs facing each other). Hex-wise, they are a 4-hex dragon with nothing but front-hexes. What happens when one of them suffers the push-back? How would you handle it? Just let the guy fall down? Or make this guy and the guy directly behind him move one hex? I'm leaning toward fall down.
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Old 09-19-2018, 08:44 AM   #58
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: Facing

Hard to say; the only rule describing what happens when two or more human-scale figures occupy the same hex stipulates that they automatically fall down (and are in HTH combat, assuming they are foes). That rule was designed for cases where opposed combatants get close, so I wouldn't want to extend it too far. I'd say you either treat it as a 'wall' situation, or you move into your neighbor's hex and now both of you are at risk of falling (and, even if you stay standing, too gummed up to direct actions at other hexes).
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Old 09-19-2018, 01:19 PM   #59
platimus
 
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Default Re: Facing

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
Hard to say; the only rule describing what happens when two or more human-scale figures occupy the same hex stipulates that they automatically fall down (and are in HTH combat, assuming they are foes). That rule was designed for cases where opposed combatants get close, so I wouldn't want to extend it too far. I'd say you either treat it as a 'wall' situation, or you move into your neighbor's hex and now both of you are at risk of falling (and, even if you stay standing, too gummed up to direct actions at other hexes).
Logical. I like it. I will probably treat it like the "wall" situation for simplicity (assuming the "wall" situation is where you fall down).

On the other hand, if I felt like my players/characters were doing too well with this "4-headed 4-hex dragon" tactic, I might start mixing in some of the other scenario (forcing the pushed into an ally's space and making them both fall down). I'd start with a random determination (fall vs push) at first and see where that went.

Last edited by platimus; 09-19-2018 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 09-19-2018, 03:22 PM   #60
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Facing

The rule is pretty clear - if you have an open hex where you can move away from the person forcing you to retreat, you have to do so. If you don't have an open hex (regardless of what's keeping you from retreating - a wall, pit, or a standing figure), you roll 3/DX or fall.

And if you are next to a pit or similar, and fall, you need to roll 3/DX or fall IN.
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