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Old 09-16-2018, 11:53 PM   #651
Daigoro
 
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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
In a realistic setting, you would not have had a manned rocket reach orbit with a black powder rocket (the delta-v is too low)
Says you...

“It is alleged that the first man to walk on the moon was Neil Armstrong in 1969,” Erdoğan said. “In fact, Muslim space explorers reached our satellite 334 years before that, in 1635. Everyone knows the story of the famous aviator, Lagâri Hasan Çelebi, the “Ottoman Rocket Man”, who made the first successful manned rocket flight in 1633.
...
NASA may have destroyed most of the physical evidence of the Ottoman’s success during the Apollo 11 mission, but we’ll try to find any evidence that might have escaped the cover up."

(Source)


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When Apollo brought the star-chariot to the French ...
After defeating Rocky Balboa...
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Old 09-17-2018, 08:07 AM   #652
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Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
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“It is alleged that the first man to walk on the moon was Neil Armstrong in 1969,” Erdoğan said. “In fact, Muslim space explorers reached our satellite 334 years before that, in 1635. Everyone knows the story of the famous aviator, Lagâri Hasan Çelebi, the “Ottoman Rocket Man”, who made the first successful manned rocket flight in 1633.
...
NASA may have destroyed most of the physical evidence of the Ottoman’s success during the Apollo 11 mission, but we’ll try to find any evidence that might have escaped the cover up."

(Source)
Please tell me that you are joking. You might as well say that they got there with a chariot pulled by cats as with a black powder rocket. It is just simple physics...
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Old 09-17-2018, 09:03 AM   #653
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Please tell me that you are joking. You might as well say that they got there with a chariot pulled by cats as with a black powder rocket. It is just simple physics...
Sure, but politicians in general (and President Erdogan in particular) have a history of saying ridiculous stuff. It's no sillier than America should be handed over to Turkish rule because the Ottomans discovered it. I don't know if he actually said this (there seems to be some dispute) but it's certainly not particularly unbelievable, especially in the context of a religious event he may have expected to just be supporting the beliefs of some part of his base.

It's not like, say, Presidents Trump or Putin haven't expressed belief in some ridiculous conspiracy theories I'm pretty sure they know are nonsense to play to their bases. It's just something politicians do.
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Old 09-17-2018, 10:54 AM   #654
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It does not make much sense, does it? Rockets are really a lot more complex than airplanes and, quite frankly, there is no realistic way that rockets could come before planes.
Whether Celebi made it to the moon is still a matter of debate, but seeing as he supposedly managed aerial flight 270 years before the Wright brothers, this assertion is the one that needs evidence.
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Old 09-17-2018, 08:37 PM   #655
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Whether Celebi made it to the moon is still a matter of debate, but seeing as he supposedly managed aerial flight 270 years before the Wright brothers, this assertion is the one that needs evidence.
There is no debate. It is physically impossible for a black powder rocket to achieve the minimum 15.7 km/s delta-v required to land on the surface of the moon (much less the total 31.4 km/s delta-v required to travel to and from the surface of the moon without aerobreaking).
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Old 09-17-2018, 09:28 PM   #656
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Well, assuming a a specific impulse of 120 seconds, comparable to sugar rockets, it would only take just over 3.1 billion kilograms of propellant for a one way trip. It would make the N1 look reasonable by comparison. On the other hand, rockets aren't the only option. If we're assuming a crazy time war, a left over beanstalk could fit the bill nicely.
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Old 09-18-2018, 06:48 AM   #657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daigoro View Post
Says you...

“It is alleged that the first man to walk on the moon was Neil Armstrong in 1969,” Erdoğan said. “In fact, Muslim space explorers reached our satellite 334 years before that, in 1635. Everyone knows the story of the famous aviator, Lagâri Hasan Çelebi, the “Ottoman Rocket Man”, who made the first successful manned rocket flight in 1633.
...
NASA may have destroyed most of the physical evidence of the Ottoman’s success during the Apollo 11 mission, but we’ll try to find any evidence that might have escaped the cover up."

(Source)
Look at the other articles on that "Source" website. It's pure taboid crap.

While it's something Erdoğan might say (he is a loon, after all), there's no real proof he said it.

But it does make a funny basis for a silly parallel.
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Old 09-18-2018, 08:05 AM   #658
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Look at the other articles on that "Source" website.
Let's see...
FORMER RUSSIAN SPY CLAIMS HE KILLED “THE REAL DONALD TRUMP” IN 2006
Dunno, sounds legit.

Quote:
It's pure taboid crap.
That would imply there's some basis in truth to the articles, yet according to their disclaimer-
"World News Daily Report assumes all responsibility for the satirical nature of its articles and for the fictional nature of their content."
But at least one person actually checked the link I went to the trouble to provide.

Quote:
But it does make a funny basis for a silly parallel.
Is there a Munchhausen-1?
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Old 09-18-2018, 08:51 AM   #659
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In a realistic setting, you would not have had a manned rocket reach orbit with a black powder rocket (the delta-v is too low)
Why are you assuming a realistic setting?

EDIT: Mind you, rereading my post I see that the edit is missing something that I vaguely think I should have added, which is speculation about chemistry and the accelerated development of chemical propellants, among other things (like balloons and mountain climbers, which did exist at the time, leading people to discover that the higher you go, the lower the air pressure is).

I wouldn't recommend using mercury(II) fulminate as rocket fuel, and salting black powder with it might not be the best idea, but in a cinematic setting, it could work.
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Old 09-18-2018, 12:15 PM   #660
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A kind of "plasma lithography device" is developed in 2022. The technology is flexible and powerful, allowing the manufacturing of anything and nearly any material that can be designed. The machine also scales in resolution freely; a single large print head can print bulk amorphous carbon at tens of grams per second, then slow down to print nanometer-scale computer traces at a dramatically reduced rate.

Normally, it would take several decades to turn a lab prototype into a new world order, but by its very nature the PLD it can duplicate itself quickly. Duplicates of the prototype were initially produced to aid in reproduction efforts, and a few found their way into the hands of journalists. In a matter of months thousands of the devices were "in the wild."

Two months later, the world is in the midst of great turmoil as every kind of manufacturing integrates what are essentially star trek replicators... and people try to develop businesses distributing PLD feedstock rods.
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