Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Board and Card Games > Car Wars

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-14-2021, 03:21 AM   #1
Yenaldlooshi
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Default Multiple Firing Arcs Page 18 Example

On page 18 of the 6e core rules; I get that yellow can shoot green either on front or right arcs, that makes sense. Is it also true though that yellow can only shoot green from weapons on yellows front arc on both greens right and front and yellows right arc weapons could only attack green's front arc only?

again that's:
Yellow Front Weapons can attack Green Front or Right.
Yellow Right Weapons can attack Green Front Only.

is that correct based on the arc I can assume for yellow?
Yenaldlooshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2021, 09:55 AM   #2
Sam Mitschke
Chief Creative Officer
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Default Re: Multiple Firing Arcs Page 18 Example

Firing arcs aren't compared to other firing arcs in this game. You just look at the viewpoint from the attacker, and then look at the viewpoint from the defender.
What can yellow shoot?
Green is within yellow's front and right arcs, so yellow can shoot green using any weapons mounted on the front and/or right.

Where can yellow shoot green?
Yellow is within green's front and right arcs, so yellow can shoot at green's front and/or right.
Don't think of the arcs as precise cones of vision. They are depictions of all possible moments when those weapons and targets were aligned as the cars jockeyed around from their previous snapshot point to the current snapshot point. Firing actions represent shots fired during that same movement from point to point. Resolving all of that, however, is turn-based due to the restrictions of tabletop gaming. This is why the "snapshot" guideline exists (p24).

You *will* encounter some shots that look very strange to the eye when looking at the freeze-frame moment of the combat phase. In this case, it may feel weird that yellow can fire a right-mounted weapon at green's right side, but it just means that yellow had the opportunity to shoot green in those places at some point between the last snapshot and this one.
Sam Mitschke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2021, 10:34 AM   #3
HeatDeath
 
Join Date: May 2012
Default Re: Multiple Firing Arcs Page 18 Example

Another way to think about it is this:

We roll the dice for the firing actions after the end of the last movement point, but that doesn't mean the firing actually happened instantaneously at the end of the last movement point.
HeatDeath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2021, 03:03 PM   #4
43Supporter
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Default Re: Multiple Firing Arcs Page 18 Example

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Mitschke View Post
Firing arcs aren't compared to other firing arcs in this game. You just look at the viewpoint from the attacker, and then look at the viewpoint from the defender.
So avoiding the old "_PanzerBush_" problem of cars jetting through firing arcs, and the firer not having a chance to shoot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Mitschke View Post
You *will* encounter some shots that look very strange to the eye when looking at the freeze-frame moment of the combat phase.
And now I have that J. Geils Band song stuck in my head.... ;)
__________________
"Dale *who*?"

The Jeremy Clarkson Debate Course:
1) I'm Right. 2) You're Wrong. 3) The End.
43Supporter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2021, 08:51 PM   #5
NexusGameTheory
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Default Re: Multiple Firing Arcs Page 18 Example

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Mitschke View Post
You just look at the viewpoint from the attacker, and then look at the viewpoint from the defender.
This was the idea that really worked for me and helped me nail it down when you stated it in some other thread. Especially the viewpoint of the defender for where they could be hit. Once I had that locked in, it made everything super easy.
NexusGameTheory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2021, 09:23 PM   #6
Sam Mitschke
Chief Creative Officer
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Default Re: Multiple Firing Arcs Page 18 Example

I have to admit that I'm pretty much quoting how Randy explained it to me and got me to stop fighting him over it. I was, in a very literal sense, the loudest opposition to the targeting rule until this phrasing of it made it all click for me.
Sam Mitschke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2021, 09:41 AM   #7
ianargent
 
Join Date: May 2012
Default Re: Multiple Firing Arcs Page 18 Example

I've tended to word this as "ONLY the attacker's arcs determine which weapons can be used; ONLY the defender's arc determine which sides can be hit." (Parenthetical - it doesn't matter which weapons are in which arcs, all weapons in arcs that bear on the target can be used against any side whose arc the attacker is in).

This avoids a LOT of rules complexity
ianargent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2021, 10:23 AM   #8
Sam Mitschke
Chief Creative Officer
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Default Re: Multiple Firing Arcs Page 18 Example

@ianargent That's a good way to put it, too, especially the parenthetical bit. It's interesting (and funny/frustrating at times) that the rules complexity you're working to avoid is introduced to the game based on certain players' expectations, rather than anything actually in our rules.
Sam Mitschke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2021, 12:01 PM   #9
ianargent
 
Join Date: May 2012
Default Re: Multiple Firing Arcs Page 18 Example

There's a very specific case in which this results in a Murphy's Rule:
If two cars are running almost side by side, with the attacker being just far enough ahead to get part of their base into the defender's front arc and, thus, the defender's base just barely in the attacker's front arc; the attacker may use their rear-mounted weapons against the defender's front arc.

I think this is fine
ianargent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2021, 12:32 PM   #10
Sam Mitschke
Chief Creative Officer
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Austin, TX
Default Re: Multiple Firing Arcs Page 18 Example

If it helps, the firing arcs do not represent actual visual fields. They instead represent a period of time between the previous snapshot position of the cars and the current snapshot position of the cars during which such a shot was possible.
Sam Mitschke is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.